I took the test in the book and scored 64.
It's no secret I have anger problems. No excuse but it's learned, cultural and now for the past several years compounded by depression and anxiety.
What was telling for me was that situations like spilling something or having to turn around halfway thourgh driving didn't bother me, it was the situations with those I know* that i would score 4 on (*a stranger butting in line didn't even bother me) . At least the questionaire sorted this out for me.
I have a lot of unforgiveness that is at the root of my anger, I know.
This may have to do with my expectations of others. But I've always struggled with a conundrum of sorts believing forgiveness has to be understood by the perceived trespasser to have meaning. Perhaps I am too conditional; I am not unconditional.

How does one forgive, even in their heart, when one knows from experience the offenders don't really see what they did wrong...or if they do, as not as big a deal?

Mr. Mouse, I empathize with your thoughts and feelings. I too face anger as probably the root of much of my anxiety and depression and yes I believe that is because I 'expect' others to react differently than they most times do. Also I can deal with people's self-analysis of their feeling but when I here feelings I frequently become antagonistic toward them. Not getting my own needs met or just inconsiderate I don't know? Session 4 was an eye opener for me. A wise man once told me "Forgiveness is the gift you give yourself" and for a long time I thought that meant I needed to be forgiven, lately I'm thinking that to forgive others as well as myself could be quite liberating; from the anger I suppress which is self-created and self inflicted. The revolution begins each within our own thoughts. Thank you for a topic which I can so readily relate to and hope for more discussion on the matter. src

"Forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves"

quote:

How does one forgive, even in their heart, when one knows from experience the offenders don't really see what they did wrong...or if they do, as not as big a deal?

you forgive through lots of practice. The bible says to forgive 7 times 70 I believe.Thats a lot any way.
Here is what Jesus said in a parable.
Matthew 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We need to be forgiven, so according to this you had better forgive others or you will not be forgiven. Good enough reason?
Glen

What I have experienced is that me not forgiving others keeps me locked in a prison of anger and bitterness, not the other party. My intent is that the other party "be brought to justice" and, therefore, I harbor a grudge until the other party does what I expect. But, the truth is, assuming the other party is not aware of the offense, the only person being hurt with my anger and unforgiveness is me.

Have you come across the story Lucinda tells of the lady who locked herself in her room all weekend because she was mad at her husband? Her husband mowed the lawn, watched tv, etc. She stayed in her room and stewed the whole weekend. She was hurting no one but herself. Her husband could care less.

Same way with an irritating boss. You go home on the weekend griping about the boss and keep thinking about him/her the entire time. Guess who you brought home to irritate you and your family? The boss.

So, the reason to let go of injustices committed against us is for our own peace of mind, not theirs!! If it is important enough then you may need to be assertive [tape 7] and say something to the individual so you are standing up for yourself. But after that we need to let it go for our own emotional health. It hard at times, but it is healthy also.

I have a sister in law who I consider to have done some aggressive things towards me when my Dad and then Mother passed away. I kept this bottled up until it almost killed me, literally. I finally called her and told her how what she did had hurt me. She said she didn't remember the instances. I didn't like that response, but, I can't control it. I simply let her know how it made me feel and how it had hurt me. She chose not to take any responsibility. AT this point I have two choices, either continue to hold a grudge and hurt about it or let it go and forgive. I have done all I can to remedy the situation. After that I was able to forgive and let it go for my own emotional health. She didn't deserve the forgiveness, but I deserve to be at peace. Make sense?

It was a process, not a one time act. The thoughts would come up again, but when they did I would say that I had forgiven the offenses and let them go and that I refused to allow them to come up or control me anymore.

The truth is this has damaged my relationship with my sil and my brother. I will be civil with them, but what has happened tells me something about how they value me as a person. I am not perfect, therefore, perhaps there are other things I am not aware of which has caused them to behave this way. But, if this type of crap occurs again they will know it immediately. I won't wait and stew about it. They tend to be "imperative" in their behavior and this creates anger. I have been this way also, so I understand most of us can be this way, but not recognizing this behavior as being controlling and wrong is offensive and they openly do not recognize it as being bad. So, I'm not sure where our relationship is going, if anywhere. I am not losing sleep over it that's for sure.

quote:

Thanks don

Same way with an irritating boss. You go home on the weekend griping about the boss and keep thinking about him/her the entire time. Guess who you brought home to irritate you and your family? The boss.

So, the reason to let go of injustices committed against us is for our own peace of mind, not theirs!! If it is important enough then you may need to be assertive [tape 7] and say something to the individual so you are standing up for yourself. But after that we need to let it go for our own emotional health. It hard at times, but it is healthy also.

quote:

I am bringing home my boss every day. I go to sleep thinking about how unfair she is and I wake up with her on my mind. I have a letter stored on my computer typed up to the boss lady above her, full of my complaints. Yesterday I spent over an hour of my time typing and re-typing the letter that I will probably never send. I stopped myself. I realized that I had just wasted my time and that my time was more precious than that. I made up my mind not to do that again. I made a decision, in the future, if I feel like typing a complaint, I'll make better use of my time like working on my resume or applying to other jobs. I have just been taking her disrespect and unappreciation all in. I am afraid I will have to utilize lesson 7, which I haven't gotten to yet, and which by the way intimidates me to a high degree. I'm so shy and rarely stand up for myslef, but it's getting to a point where I can't just let it go any more. Your post, i could relate to the boss thing. Thanks, and it made me realize to put an extra amount of focus on Lesson 7 Assertive Behavior. Thanks!



Hey, By the way, we're in Wichita Falls again!!! Yeehaa!!

Don53!

I will assert this. My sister is older than me. She will always see me as her youger brother. I am not sure she will ever not second guess my actions or decisions. Forgiveness is mine. Will I? I'll get back to y'all on that one.

I had a roomate, we lived in an apartment complex. After partying one night my gal was up late cooking for a benefit, she didn't live there, with my roomate and I.

The door was left unlocked.

The next day when I walked into the main living area, I saw wires draped around, I walked in and saw EVERYTHING was gone from our living room! My roomate lose a $3000.00 stereo his self. Most of it was mine.

Who was to blame? (blame- Whats blame really?)

src

Glad it helped, HoneyNutChex. I worked with a boss who was very negative, saw most things only from the negative side. There were times when she wanted me to agree with her about something being negative. Some of the time I would go against the grain and point out the good side of the situation. It didn't phase her at all. It's a wonder to me how she can live and not have emotional illness as a result. There were times that I talked to myself silently and said, "Your choice is to be negative, you love negative. My choice is not to go there." I have to admit that I did become a lot more negative after working for her though. Maybe one reason I am not doing so well now.

src,

It amazes me how family fails to realize that we all need our own space to make our own decisions and to feel free to live our lives in order to be functional and independent. Sometimes family needs to be told where the personal boundaries are and how giving unsolicited advice or worse, telling someone what to do in a situation, gives at the least the appearance that the individual questions the other's competency and adequacy in dealing with his own life. It may be done out of love or out of a need to control. Either way, sometimes they need to be told "no trespassing" in a manner that befits the circumstance. In my opinion, someone who listens and understands what you are saying has respect for you, but someone who does not may not respect you. That is where I am at with my sil.

I refuse to bring up the past, but my sil's behavior has not changed. It will have to for our relationship to be any better. The choice is hers. I don't hold the past against her and, therefore, I have released myself from the hurtful thoughts and feelings of the past injustices. It required no action on her part whatsoever. But, I do think communicating with her about what took place was a necessary step in this process.

Blame -- I don't like the word. It is a very negative word, thought, and emotion. How about forgiveness instead?

well here is the bottom line as my friend once told me.Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself,and what i mean by that is when you forgive or have been forgiven it only effects one thing.That one thing is you...I have been saying sorry to someone for many years now over an incident that was beyond my control and that absolutely will never forgive me.The only one that will effect is me and i have 2 choices either to stay angry or upset over it and let it poison you emotionally or realize that you have done evrything you can and thats all anyone can askand move on.Its hard to do but when anger or fear or upset come into play the only on it poisons is you.All you can do is do the right thing and wheather the counter party accepts or doesnt you will never be able to control that .You can only control what you do and that answer is to do the right thing and let it go no matter what.God Bless

Hey Mr.Mouse,

Every person has some sort of anger issue to a certain extent....Anger is a natural feeling and response when you are "Wronged." or "Let down" and if you hold on to it... it will continue to grow. The problem with that is, even if you are mad at someone and upset with them everyday of your life--It probably does not effect that person or their life in any way whatsoever. So, it becomes a larger issue for you to get over. More than likely, the person you are angry with, has moved on and does not care about your anger anyway!

You should not worry about if the "offender" knows what he or she did wrong... He or She Probably does not care,-- therefore you are expending way to much time and energy and mental health resources on someone else who has clearly not even accepted any accountability in your anger issues! Someone said to me once- If you are a good person, your conscience is all that you need.!!!



Do not let other people's opinions effect you! I still hold that to be true! Do not worry about drama...... It will come and go for as long as you live!

It is up to you to move on and not let people anger you or effect you in the long run! Forgiveness is up to you even if the Offender does not acknowledge it..!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice post Glas(Glen) and HoneyNut...helped me out a lil also.

Hi,
I've been busy but lurking.
Thank you all for giving your time. You are all right. I am working on it.
Thanks.

I wrote on the other thread about anger with my daughter hanging up on me. This one was helpful more esp.about listening to the assertive tape. I need to listen to it again cuz when I kept getting notes from my boss about things she assumed I did wrong, I'd be upset. I listened to the tape and confronted her saying she could put the notes on my time card or not in front view of everyone. She did change or if left for everyone to see it was addressed "Girls" instead of just my name. I will listen to the assertive tape again because I think I need to stand up for myself in front of my kids instead of letting them walk all over me. Since she's the one who hung up on me she'll have to deal with her own anger. She didn't slam it in anger or say anything mean she just hung up. It's going round and round in my head what did I say to upset her..who knows. I need to move on instead of letting this make me angry. OK, guess I'm upset because she's our realtor and I made the comment "I thought you were supposed to be working for the seller" so that maybe made her mad. She knows we have no place to live while our new home is being built (there will be about a l0 day lapse) and she says we could move out the week before closing. I said , "Are you out of your mind?" so there that wasn't nice but it was a figure of speech because they have their home for sale and I quickly said, "Well would you move out a week ahead?" plus when their home sells this other home they're buying is vacant so completely different situation. When we found out we'd need another place and the home they'd get if there's sold has 4-5 bedrooms. I made a comment about moving in with them. She said, "Ha, I'd pay your rent first." I know if they were in need and knowing it would only be a few wks. we'd take them in. What is wrong with kids today? Also when putting his mom in a nursing home and seeing all the junk made me think of all my junk and what my kids will deal with. I commented on that to my daughter and she said, "Oh Mom you don't need to worry cuz when you die, we'll just burn everything!" It was said jokingly but do you think that didn't hurt? I never commented to her about it. One time she made the comment that when one person hurts another it's human nature just to hurt back. So is that why she hung up because I hurt her first? I AM SO SICK OF RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMs! I'm sick of being hurt and hurting people. Being angry and carrying it. I've struggled most of my life with my mom. She'll be here next month. Spends winters in FL. Why did this have to be passed on with my kids? Any advice?
Mr. Mouse, I'm glad you're working on it. I came on here to try to get help. I didn't mean to vent. I said I wouldn't stir the pot on the last thread but now I did anyway. Now I'll go play music and get busy with laundry etc.

Barb,
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Wish I had lots of answers for you, but don't. Just a few suggestions, maybe some you can use.
Your daughter, ouch, that's always a bit of a tough one - tapes #'s 4 - expectations,
#6 - on anger, and #7 - assertive behavior, might help as a trio of info to help there.
It may take listening to these over and over and over until you really believe. In YOU.

Sometimes our grown children prefer us to stay in the character mold that they're used to, and may push our buttons (for a while anyway)in an effort to get back to familiar territory. Something THEY are used to, but not necessarily what is healthy for anyone.
Talk about this with your daughter. Have HER listen to the "I'll be there for you" tape. This helps her to understand and realize that you are going to change for the better whether she's comfy with that yet or not. It also allows you to give yourself that additional self permission to change your relationship with her. Lets you feel more like it's OK and not feel guilty about it. Sort of like, "hey, I need you to listen because I wasn't happy the way I was and am going to move forward, with or without you accepting it first. You're going to have to adjust to the new, healthier me, and I'll try to be more patient with you as you get there"
Surprisingly, my daughter came to me first and told me that she was happy for me , yet a bit uncomfortable and said "I have to get used to you being so much happier, so give me some time please". Believe me, at first she was pushing a lot of buttons to get the old me back and didn't even realize it. That's very common and a normal reaction for our kids no matter how old they are.
About the house - is there a possibility that you can rent from the new owner for that period of time? We had to do that. ??
Maybe most important of all, when you have an issue to deal with --------put the corresponding program tape on first and soak it in, or two or three of them. I listen to them still every day for the reinforcement, whenever and what ever.
THEN, decide if you need to post and do it , or listen to the tapes again and give yourself a hug.
Huge hugs.
pm any time I have a son and daughter too and life can hand us some tough ones.

Thanks Cindlylou. She was on my mind last night and first thing this morning. I went to God about it and sometimes feel like God is saying I run here more than to him. I also think He was saying "Wait on me, and also "humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and He will lift you up." He told me that even tho I can't see him, I can't see my online friends either. He said intimacy is Into Me See. Will I see into Him with my spiritual eyes and not physical. Boy, it's hard.

I did listen to the anger tape and checked some things in the assertive wkbk. I haven't listened to the expecatations in a while. Thanks for the advice. I checked this site many times hoping SOMEONE would answer.

As far as renting, I mentioned that to her and she said it wouldn't work because the entire family took off a week to have that wknd. and celbrate the 4th of July here. Our home was bought for their parents but also a getaway for the married/adult children.

I don't know if she'd even listen to the tape "I'll be there for you". I also need to find it. She'd probably say again. It's aways "all about you." I have relationship problems with my mom and I said she's still a little girl. My daughter said, "no mom, you're that little girl." That hurt too. I really am trying to grow up and be the adult. Thanks for the invite to PM, I maybe will. Just still wanted input from others too. Thanks again!