Hi everyone, I am attempting right now to help myself with a lifelong habitual reaction, which comes up only around certain people and i will be with one of these people tomorrow evening. I can't believe how much concern and stress this causes me! It's funny....when i tell Jonathan (my friend, and the man i lived with for 13 years) that i often don't say what i REALLY feel around him, he can't imagine that this is true! He regards me as incredibly assertive...someone who always says whatever she means. The truth is, i often as VERY, VERY CAREFUL about what i say to him as i know his reaction will be very unpleasant....i know from experience how angry he will become,etc. (won't get into detail here) With most friends, with the general public....i am anything but timid! I know i can be pretty forceful, speak my mind, say how i feel. AND, there is this other side to me....the complete opposite. And this comes up when i'm around very specific people. Tomorrow night i'm having dinner with someone like this....WHY did i agree to dinner???!!!! I still, sometimes, get myself into situations i would MUCH rather not be in! This is a man i have always found quite attractive and he is definately attracted to me...big time! He is Mr. Academic and i am the absolute opposite. I find him to be very negative, always complaining about people, society, his situation, on and on. He's extremely intelligent and has 'a way with words'. It isn't that i don't agree with his perceptions, it's just that i don't LIVE from a place of negation, whining and criticising everyone around me! When i voice my opinion, my view on something....very often it is obvious that he has no patience for this...it's like he knows beter. We are very different people...he lives from his intellect and i live from my intuition and my personal experience. And he's crazy about me! I am NOT crazy about him. What happens to me when i perceive he's not interested in what i'm saying is ~ i tend to 'fade into the background'.....it's like i 'go out of focus', so to speak. Where did Lindi go? So, here is a case where i don't want to upset the very person who i find intimidating, irritating, too opinionated, and depressing! I see the 'pattern', i know where this comes from....and yet, i haven't been able to overcome this automatic reaction i have....my 'disappearing act'. And it's soooo painful...to feel myself becoming incredibly inarticulate, like a bumbling idiot...on topics i usually speak so easily about! Even now, as i write this, i can see that i'm not articulating this very well. This area in my life (losing myself and fading away) comes up now and then and i am amazed at how upset it makes me. Yesterday, i was with my x-husband (who is such a close friend...Paul) and his friend was with him. Whenever i spoke, his friend interrupted me. At some point i said "Barry, i really am interested in what you have to say but i'd like to finish what I was saying......." He just carried on, ignoring me. I felt like i was in the twilight zone! The thing that surprised me the most, was when i left and was walking home on my own, i burst into tears! I felt such a deep hurt inside myself...i was 6 years old again! It was as if a lifetime of hurt and rage suddenly came up from within, and honestly...i cried all day. A well of emotion just exploded. This is all about not being heard, not being listened to, about being ignored....when i was a child, and how this has infected my life in other areas. For whatever reason, i am overly-emotional lately. Actually, i don't even want to judge how i am lately...i'm sure this is happening for a good reason, so i'm just allowing myself to feel however i'm feeling. The thing is, i want so much to find a way to be with this fellow tomorrow night, WITHOUT dismissing myself! I can't expect miracles, as this reaction in me has been in place for so long. I will be pleased if i can help myself even a little. It is SO INSANE to be 'taking care' of someone else, at the expense of my own comfort!!!! I don't want to be doing this ANYMORE! Please forgive me if i have rambled on without making much sense....i am FEELING inarticulate and unfocused lately, but wanted to post here again and try to get myself back to this BB. God bless you all and have a great day! Lindi

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Linda

Hi Lindi,

Congratulations on starting to assert part of your self in the company of others. How others react to what we assert is their free-will choice, to the extent that asserting does not mean demanding a specific outcome we desire. Within that context, I�ve found to a large extent the reactions of those closest to me are most often what I�ve sought out by choosing to have relations with them in the first place.

It�s wonderful to put assertiveness into practice within our relations, but I often find assertiveness comes in the form of pushing myself toward new folks that relate in ways that work for me. I�ve experienced enough relations to understand how true it is that folks who don�t talk over me, or discount me, are found not made.

As always, may you give your self the gift of letting in your own compassion, love, patience and acceptance for your self no matter where you may find your self in the journey.

~ Dolphin

Lindi
Same problem. Just experienced it yesterday. A friend of my husband's came to visit. Well-read, well-spoken, very knowledgable friend. Both him and my husband having a knack for political views and historical perspectives - yep, my weak point. Only way I relate to politics is to compare it to family issues, personal experience, and intuition. Do you suppose they wanted to hear how I compare and contrast raising kids with Stalin and the Russian Revolution? HA! Well they got my two cents anyway. I have experienced fading into the background and crying (if only on the inside) all the way home. Not tonight, Mister!!! I raised my voice louder if I felt like I was getting squeezed out. I didn't run the show, but I certainly participated! I'm tired of bowing out just because people do not understand my perspective. Lately it has been enough just for me to know I believe in myself and what I have to say is important to me. Besides, after so many years of being a wallflower I am allowing myself to feel ackward as I learn the art of contributing confidently to conversations. I walked away proud of myself for contributing at all. I like my newfound ability to keep talking despite the blank expressions I receive. Makes me laugh thinking about it now. I just don't take myself and the conversation so serious anymore.
PS - Inarticulate is my middle name!!!!

Hi DOLPHIN and BAKEDPEARS! My format won't make paragraphs, so all of this will probably run together. I am so happy to hear from you both. I spent half the night awake, bothered by my thoughts....thoughts about getting together with this man tonight, the one i mentioned in this post. Awakened so many times feeling claustrophobic, stuck, just horrible! I KNOW this one! Been here before. I spent part of this morning doing some writing, looking at what motivates me (bottom line) to keep someone in my life who i REALLY, TRULY do not enjoy being with! Someone who is enchanted with me. I have always felt uncomfy with this guy! Actually, to say "keep someone in my life" is not accurate ~ he's someone i see seldom and right now he is making moves to get closer to me, to (at least) make me his friend. Yes, there are qualities about him which i like, but for the most part i find it stressful spending much time with him. We really do come from two different worlds. Anyway, i see my behaviour here as a very old 'pattern', one which i want very much to SMASH! I have NO TROUBLE saying "no" to most people and i have NO TROUBLE asserting myself in the company of most people ~ yet, when it comes to particular 'types' of people, it is amazing the lengths i will go to, to make sure that person doesn't feel bad, at my own expense!! And i will find myself saying "yes", rather than "no". And it is with these same 'types', that i become inarticulate and fumble around for the words that usually flow! I don't seem to be willing to cancel tonight's dinner, so i am seeing if i can use this as a PRACTICE. I'd love to just CALM DOWN about this and trust that if things get very uncomfortable for me (dead silences....me listening to him going on and on about something i don't care about....) that i will say whatever i need to say! *I have a certificate (for God's sake!) in Communication Skills!!!! I learned the "I Message" many years ago! And still, around these people, i seem to 'freeze', and those natural skills fly out the window! I HATE THIS!!!! I know i shouldn't BE WITH these people in the first place! I know there is a lesson for me here. I hope you don't mind my rambling....i am SO, SO frustrated with this pattern in my life! I can SEE where and how it originated and why i still cling to it....being around someone who thinks i'm so 'special', someone whose company i find to be very difficult, someone who cannot give me or offer me what i enjoy or need....but i don't want to hurt them! It's so obvious to me how this got so 'twisted' so early on in my life, so all i can do is PRACTICE to undo this dysfunctional habit. DOLPHIN: Such a great way of putting it: "folks who don't talk over me or discount me are found, not made." How true. And i am so grateful to have so many people in my life who would never THINK to talk over me or discount me! Everything and everyone is MY CHOICE, and i hope to God i start exercising these choices from now on! BAKEDPEARS: **Did you ever read my response to you in another post i made a few weeks ago? I had asked if Baked Pears was actually something you make, at eat??! Cause it sounds yummy! Thank you SO MUCH for your response today! I too have always compared politics to family issues or to simply what goes on inside of one individual! The kind of people we are referring to here, are certainly NOT interested in those analogies! Good for you for refusing to 'fade into the background'. When i was married (a ten year marriage, i am very close friends with my x-husband,Paul)... i had many experiences like the one you wrote about. He and his friend would engage in lengthy conversations such as the one you mentioned and when i'd put in my two cents, his friend would pat me on the head, as if to say "isn't she cute". Way back in those days, i would end of being absolutely silent. As years passed, i realized i wasn't interested in the way they approached these topics and so i finally stopped feeling 'stupid' (as i did) and found i was bored. Sometimes though, i would find myself screaming out what i was trying to say, demanding their attention! But for God's sake ~ i have enough people in my life who ENJOY listening to what i have to say, so WHY am i even spending time with these 'others'! You said that you "keep talking despite the blank expression you receive." Oboy! I find that very difficult. If this happens tonight, which it will ~ i hope to find myself saying something like "You don't seem interested in what i have to say". Let HIM deal with it! OR, of course, i can try "I'm not comfy talking about this, cause i get the feeling you aren't interested.". You know, i am SO SICK of this kind of thing. I read about a study done recently, where a speaker was talking to a large audience. The audience was told to pay attention, clap, and be very attentive at certain points....and then, to drop their attention, talk amongst themselves and ignore the speaker at other times. Interesting ~ when the audience showed interest, the speaker just glowed, was extremely articulate, things just flowed. When the audience was paying no attention, the speaker lost his vitality and kinda faded off. And this makes sense! It MATTERS how someone responds to us! Why WOULD we want to talk into a blank face...a wall?! Well, i've been spending time with some people that are 'wrong' for me, and i am now going to practice changing this. Any and all support will be appreciated, as i find this very hard to do. And again ~ this happens ONLY around certain kinds of people. It isn't a daily problem in my life. I'm usually at ease, gregarious and fun-loving. When i'm with THESE people, just the opposite takes over, and it's soooo painful. Thank you for hanging around for this incredibly long ramble. Love to all, Lindi

Lindi
Yes, Bakedpears is a dish my husband makes from the pears we get off our tree in the front yard. And , yes, they ARE yummy!!

In Lucinda's book LIFE WITHOUT LIMITS on page 65 it reads:

And before long my closest friend was Joseph Wood Krutch, hereinafter to be
known as Joe. Many times since then I have tried to date the moment when I knew this to be true. I think it was one evening when the two of us stood in the vestibule of a subway train bound for Times Square, to a restaurant, a theater, or both. The train was noisy so that we had to shout, but the circumstance seemed unimportant. The important thing was that we had a great deal to say to one another, and that each was really interested in what the other said; also, that each was eager to speak when it came his turn, and was confident that what he said would be worth hearing. We like those who inspire us to talk well, to talk indeed our best, which in their presence becomes something better than it ever was before, so that it surprises and delights us too. We like least those persons in whose presence we are dull. For we can be either, and company brings it out; that is what company is for. Joe Krutch from this moment was famous company for me, and the conversation begun then has never stopped. It has ranged without apology from the grandest to the meanest subjects; it has a natural facility in rising or in sinking; but the point is, we have never run out of things to say.
-MARK VAN DOREN, 1958
(The Autobiography of Mark Van Doren)

Sort of backs up the study you refer to. But I don't need any stats- I have done my own experiments enough to know it is true!
Thanks for listening!
Tammy

Hi Tammy, SO GOOD to see you here, JUST before my dinner date which i anticipate being 'uncomfy'. Thank's for that wonderful segment you posted for me, I LOVED IT!! I hope to God i am 'there for myself' tonight, that i am true to myself, that i take a step in the direction which finds me on the road which is filled with integrity! Another instance of essentially working with fear....fear of something i need not fear! Thank you SO much! (any chance to obtain the recipie for bakedpears?Or is it simply baking them?) Bye for now, love Lindi

Hi again. I am writing here simply to try to keep myself 'focused'. For quite a while now, so much seems to fade into the background (not just me!)....what i mean is, is used to retain so much of what i read, (and i read alot) so much of the content of conversations my friends and i would have....something changed in me where now i find i forget what happened an hour ago...sometimes it's like i'm floating in space. Anyway, that's another topic i guess...my wanting so much to get myself BACK, into Awareness, Consciousness, AWAKE!
BAKED PEARS: I just read that piece of writing by Mark Van Doren again, and of course!! Why WOULD we spend time with anyone who we don't share that kind of discourse with!!! Why WOULD we do that to ourselves!! Well, there are reasons and they are not GOOD ones! So, last night ~ I had decided to TELL this fellow how i feel regarding his attraction to me, to be honest about the fact that i'm not comfortable about it...basically to let him know in no uncertain terms...that i am NOT INTERESTED. It didn't happen. Every time i thought of saying this, i felt enormously uncomfortable and this has everything to do with how i FEEL around this man. So hard to describe someone to you, the 'aura' they present, and how it effects me....actually, this guy effects many people in the same way. So, i won't try to describe him, because...in the end...it's only ME who needs to change my ways. We talked throughout dinner...i invented energy i didn't have to tell a couple of stories and did my best to stay focused on our conversation. It's not the content of our talks which is not interesting....it's his WAY, his 'take' on things which i find off-putting, and he isn't someone i feel the least bit comfy expressing this to! So...i expressed nothing. After all, it's not my place to say "Hey! You complain constantly about everyone in this city (Toronto the Uptight!) when you YOURSELF present the most uptight, repressed, tense, emotionally-unavailable, critical,............... It IS my place to NOT BE THERE! See? I have all the answers. AND YET, i become verbally paralyzed! Anyway, what happened was...i became incredibly tired and felt i would fall asleep near the end of dinner. Then, it being still very early, we came back to my place where he very kindly spent some time attempting to fix my computer. During this time, i felt so druggy..like i just HAD to go to sleep. What a hostess i was!! All the while, i wanted to speak with him about my feelings and could not bring myself to. Finally, i apologized about being so tired and we said goodnight. I could see he was disappointed. I thought i would feel relieved after, but could not fall asleep for 3 hours. Perhaps i will send him an email, telling him how i feel about this kinda-sorta 'friendship', which he is trying to develop and which i am reticent to do. I realize what i'm writing makes me sound like a teenager! I can't believe it myself! Okay, it's a gorgeous Saturday afternoon...the sun is shining and i'm going to get out of here! Thank's to you both and hope to speak with you again soon, love and hugs, Lindilooooooo

quote:

Originally posted by Lindi:
The sun is shining and i'm going to get out of here!

Hi Lindi,

What a bright idea!

Good for you!

~ Dolphin

Lindi
Good for you in figuring out your feelings. Even when we know the answers and the right thing to do... it still can be extremely hard to do. All we can do, is all we can do. If all you can do is write him an email - that's a start. Sounds like you really would've liked to tell him to his face. Oh well. You may just get another chance. These situations and the "aura" you describe are way too familiar to me. You are in a tough spot. I give you much credit for all your attempts to uncover YOUR feelings. That in itself is a huge step. So many keep trying to figure out the OTHER person.
Hope you got rested up and re-energized by the sunshine. Keep me posted!
Tammy

Hi Tammy, Thank you for your support....you surely know 'this one' from personal experience! I DID send an email and received one back. So, i've said PART of what i needed to, which was about my not wanting to get 'involved' with him. The part i chose to leave out was about how i am effected by his attitudes,etc. This fellow is someone who doesn't open up easily, needs time to trust someone. I think he'd like to develop a friendship with me and, in time, he might trust. Well, i can appreciate and respect this, BUT i have been living in a world of 'opening up' being second-nature to me and others i spend time with....for SOOOOOO many years now! It isn't his FAULT that i feel repressed around him....however, i DO feel that way. I did actually explain (briefly) in my email to him that i am not comfy with the 'unspoken', that 'my way' is naturally to be forthright,etc. He wrote back, explaining that for him, he needs to trust and that he thinks long and hard before he divulges certain personal things...he thinks first about what purpose it would serve, whether or not the recipient of his information would really WANT to hear it,etc. Well, probably that's a 'wise' way to think, and i might just speak too soon sometimes, not thinking AT ALL about consequences! Bottom line around this whole topic is ~ why i find it soooooo difficult to just say NO to certain people or to say how i FEEL about them! Tammy, have a very, very HAPPY NEWYEARS!!!! I'm not doing anything really...staying home with Donnie (have i mentioned him?) and watching videos. No parties, no nothing this year!! I hope to God this will be my year of making a reappearance in my own life!! God bless and talk with you later, hugs, Lindaloo