Hi,

I've been doing lesson 7 for almost a week and am running into a problem and would like advice.

I've started speaking more politely and assertively and try to keep my voice controlled as well as I could, not that I ever yell anyway. I've slipped a few times from saying things assertively, even a couple of times a day, but practise makes perfect and I'm getting better at it.

I've paid now a lot of attention to what I sound like when I'm expressing my fears to my boyfriend and I sounded always very whiny and had a victim-voice. Well, I don't like it now that I noticed it so I've tried to control it. I find it difficult when facing the most difficult situations, but after noticing I'm slipping I've changed back to being assertive and try my very best to sound normal. I have no problem turning anger off, but to turn the whining off is the difficult part. Doing better though.

I've noticed the last 2 days that when I manage to do this during my conversation with my boyfriend, he sounds whiny and has a victim-voice and I don't feel good about it. So I tried speaking to him about it in an extremely assertive way saying how I think that if he would have a look at a couple of the lessons (controlling negative thoughts and being assertive), it would be good for our communication. I explained what I'm doing trying to change my own reactions, just like it says to do in the action assignments. I also said that I feel that he would feel better about the changes if he would have ways to deal with it and could adapt to it better. He said he could have a look so no objection.

Then I asked him a bit later assertively that I would feel good if he could tell me that I'm the only woman he loves and that blah blah stuff. I was feeling a bit insecure, but could still keep my tone very controlled. He told me. Then suddenly he turned his back to me (we were going to sleep) and tells me that he wants to go to sleep now and that's it. I felt like being thrown in the bin, but I stayed assertive. Of course I asked if I said something wrong or if he misunderstood me about something. He said he's having his own negative thoughts and he does not want to talk more but to go to sleep, He gets thoughts sometimes from our conversations, especially recently, not something that has happened for long, only a couple of weeks and 3 times.

So I offered to go and do something else for half and hour and then we can go to sleep without feeling bad and agree things before sleeping. He refused soooo many times in the past to agree things first and then go to sleep, which caused more arguement, but I want it to change. I explained to him that I said in the beginning of our relationship (over 5.5 years ago) that I would always prefer to agree things and then go to sleep and never go to sleep arguing. He said that it's my rule and not his and that he's happy without it. I said that yes and it's a rule that I would really appreciate if we could follow because I believe in it very strongly. He said that it's enough for him to just be in quiet and everything's fine. So I offered again to go away and come back in half an hour. He said very angrily to me "Well, then go!" I said still very calmly "That's absolutely fine and I'll come back in half an hour and we agree things and go to bed then. I also added very calmly and with a controlled tone "I don't appreciate using that tone to me." He did not say anything and I came to type this on the forum.

I just find it very difficult that he stays with the old ways and I'm learning new and dealing with things better. He kind of pulls me back, and I'm not going to go back to old habits because I love the new ones, but he's going to have to change too and that's why I offered him some help so he could control his feelings and voice. When I go back, I just feel he'll have gone to sleep, which I'll then find rude when I said I'd appreciate to agree things first and then go to sleep. He wanted his quiet time and I gave it to him. Of course I'm trying not to expect it, and will talk about it with him tomorrow if he's gone to sleep, but I'm scared I cannot change these habits in our life. I will change them in my life.

Anyway, time to go. Thank you for your support here and thank you for reading.

Hello Satu:
I am impressed with how well you are doing in applying the lessons to yourself and the progress you are making.
However, I doubt you'll be successful in changing another. You will read further into the program that it is impossibe to change another person. They must change themselves. Usually asking them to change is pointless. It often antaganizies them to do so.

But what you can do is continue to work on yourself. Go ahead and change what you feel need changing. That is not easy but it sounds like you are, indeed , making progress.
When your friend there sees the change in you, then he might like it and he may want to havae what you have found. But he'll have to do that for himself.

Sometimes, however. a partner will not like the changes in you. It happens. In that case you might have to make some decisions. But only cross that bridge should you come to it.

Please let us know how this works out for you.
And the best wishes for you!
Keep up the good work.
MJ

I concur with Cornflower. Good for you in changing. At the same time, we have to accept others for who they are, not for who or how we would like them to be. It looks like what you are asking your bf to do is not unreasonable, but it appears to be a control issue with you. You refuse to let it go if he refuses.

Assertiveness expresses who we are, our desires, but it is up to the other person to respond to us. We can't control that no matter how much we'd like to and trying to control the response will only drive people away. I've done the same thing countless times.

Hi and thank you so much for your replies!

I'll first update what happened that evening I wrote the first post. I went back to sleep and said assertively that I'm back now and would like to finish the talking and go to sleep. So I apologized and he apologized and we went to sleep and it was fine.

Cornflower:
Thank you for your words. When I read your reply I realised (which I already knew, but didn't think of) that you're absolutely right that it is impossibe to change another person and that they must change themselves. That's why I was trying to speak to my boyfriend about how good the program has been to me, but he doesn't really see anything there for him. And I will definitely keep changing myself. This course is the best thing I've done for myself for many many years.
I know he can see a difference in me, but he takes it as in that's just me, nothing for him. I said these new assertive skills, which I to some extend (but not as well as I will after this course and practise) used to have before are learnt. I used to be interested in polite and calm communication already years ago, but didn't quite apply it to all areas of communication.
The thing is that my boyfriend does like the changes in me, but this behaviour cannot keep up with my progress as it's very difficult to me.

Don57:
Thank you for your words
You're absolutely right about that I should just accept that I'm changing and he is who he is. He was exactly what I wanted when I met him and he still is, but he did change at some point when I became anxious. It's very difficult when you're trying to change yourself for years and you finally find out what is wrong and start having success and it seems that it's not appreciated. At least I appreciate it. I know he does too, but I find it a bit of a weird way of showing it when he doesn't want to have a look if he could do something to make "us" even better.

Anyway, now more regarding his behaviour. Something that happened today was that he had a job interview and he came out from there and when I asked how it went, he said fine. As we know my anxiety is all about other females and I asked him if the female interviewer was decently dressed. This means that she didn't have an overly open top or something. He said that she was wearing something dark all over and that he only realises it now when I ask. I know that he never looks at other women's "feminine" parts, just like I don't look at other men. I started having anxiety and a lot of what-if thinking that: "what if he noticed her chest?". I know he did not, but my negative, what-if thinking got me to anxiety attack and I didn't make it to my spiral notebook early enough. He got within a fewm minutes really angry. He started the car and drove very irresponsibly to the other side of the car park. I was back to being more calm and said "If you're going to be driving like this, I'd like to get out of the car." He got even more angry, but I said it because I was very scared. He never drives like that. He drove the car to another parking spot and hopped out and slammed the door as hard as he could. I was sooo scared. I started crying remembering other anger attacks he's had and they are many.
He came back soon and said very angrily to me: "Fine! I'll drive safely, but don't talk to me!" I was so hurt. I was in a place that I hadn't been before, I didn't know how to get home (or to his mother's place where we are staying at the moment) and I felt I had to stay quiet to get home safely. I didn't even want to be in the car. So we stopped by a shop on the way and I took an assertive way to express myself and said: "I do not appreciate using aggressive behaviour and language to me. I felt scared, disappointed and mistreated and I didn't deserve it." His comment was that he doesn't deserve the questioning, which I agree with. He also knows that the thoughts and words that come out sometimes when I have an anxiety attack are irrational and not to be taken seriously, but he cannot see that no matter how much we've spoken about it. I said that I do not accept being aggressive towards me and that it is possible to control anger, but his answer to this is that I just keep quiet. This also happens sometimes when my attack is about something completely different than females, for example how someone treated me. I said that I know and I believe that anger can be controlled and switched off, because I do it. Then we apologized for the thing, During that talk I did my best to keep as assertive as I could and don't think I did too badly and he was speaking with an angry and accusing voice. But I cannot help that the thoughts in my head about how everything is my fault in his mind and the aggressiveness are just making me feel insecure and unsure.

Anyway, I know what my mistakes were in that argument and I'm not bashing myself over them. I feel better now and will go for a walk after dinner.

Thank you again.

Just keep working the program. It sounds like you may have some insecurity about how attractive you are which has to do with self esteem. Just keep working the program and that will improve.

I would say it's normal for guys to notice the curves on women. It's attractive and that's the way we are wired, to notice and recognize beauty. That doesn't mean we take it into the gutter with other thoughts such as imagining what those curves look like without clothes. For some guys it does, but for a lot of guys it doesn't. If my wife were possessive, meaning insecure about me looking at other women, and she asked me questions about what I noticed about another woman and this was characteristic of the questions asked of me on a regular basis, I'd get very tired of the questions as well. It implies a lack of trust, insecurity, on her part. If I hardly ever looked at other women, it would be very disappointing, discouraging, and to the point of being ridiculous.

Men are very different from women. Men are very visual in nature and in our society women in scanty or suggestive clothes are everywhere, on billboards, in ads, magazines, at the super market, you name it. I used to make fun of it to my wife and tell her that men needed equal time to show up with just shorts on, ripped upper body muscles, and nice abs in the same media with a bulge in the shorts to show women how it feels to be bombarded with sensory images everwhere you turn. She just laughed at me. It is a bit ridiculous in my opinion, the amount of sexual content in our media.

Just because we notice curves doesn't mean anything. If I see an attractive car, like a red '66 Mustang or a canary yello '65 Corvette, I look at it to admire its beauty as well. I might even stare at the car.

I had a girlfriend in college who was very insecure. She would ask me constantly if I loved her. It got very old very quick. I didn't want to go steady but she did. Being the people pleaser I was, I gave in to her. Being insecure and possessive doesn't work well in a relationship. It drives the other party away from you instead of drawing them closer to you. It is a form of control and no one likes to be controlled. I eventually broke off the relationship.

On the flip side of the coin, I was insecure and possessive with my first girlfriend in high school. I drove her nuts at times. If she talked to another guy or was involved in a school activity with other guys I would try and find out if anything was "going on". I was jealous a lot of the time. This comes from insecurity and low self esteem. What works is good, positive thoughts and trust in your partner, plain and simple.

Thinking well of ourselves, healthy self esteem, must come from inside of us, not through a romantic relationship. Self esteem must be internally generated, not generated from an external source. To base it upon an external source, such as a relationship, makes us puppets or yo-yos to the ups and downs of the relationship. It simply doesn't work well. It appears this could be the case in your situation? You are up or down depending on how you perceive your partner responds to you?

One of the harder lessons from this program for me is realizing the fact that just because I want to change doesn't mean everyone else wants to also. It has me questioning some of my relationships with people and am trying to except them for who they are and what they are, and not what 'I want' them to be. Some, unfortunately may fall by the wayside, but I see a more healthy way of relating to others this way in the future.

Satu,

First of all - congratulations on your progress so far in the program. It sounds like you are making very positive steps! Good for you! I second the other posters in saying...KEEP WITH THE PROGRAM. It is great that you are learning to be assertive, but that is only one facet to the healing process...when you add on all the other skills, you will get the whole picture and things will begin to be more clear for you. You are doing great though.

I think you realized that your bf's anger issues began with your anxiety and self-esteem issue. Being assertive and asking for what you need (ie - I am feeling a little insecure now, could you give me a hug...or telll me how I look...or something) is different than asking questions based on anxiety. More than likely, your bf was experiencing some anxiety of his own - it was a job interview after all. More than likely he did not notice the interviewer except in passing because he was proably ofcused on getting a job! I mean - how would it look to an interviewer if her potential job candidate was staring down her blouse. Now way would she hire him!!! And even if he noticed that she was attractive or whatever - it's more of a visual thing like Don was saying. Woman take the visual and connect it immediately to feelings and emotional content. Men generally don't do that! They see it - they register it - good, bad, pretty, not so pretty, whatever. It's not that big a deal to them as it is to us...in most cases...and I'd say a job interview would be one of those cases!

You can't change him. You need to focus on you and your being less affected by not only his reactions, but your perceptions of what his reactions MIGHT be. That is not reality. He didn't come out of hte interview saying anything about her appearance, and neither should you...it will only cause a problem where one does not exist. That is the part where I am saying you need to focus on you.

Being assertive is great! And you are getting that down pat for sure! There is a session on obsessive thoughts that will help you. Session 12 deals with changing and I think you will get some big revelations in that one too.

I think Don hit the nail on the head that this is a control issue for you. You are assertive. You are growing and learning to cope with your anxiety, but you may be trying to use your new skills to control a situation to where it is comfortable for you. We can not be comfortable in every situation. But we CAN learn how to properly deal with and behave in the situations which make us uneasy.

You are on the right track - keep up the good work! Stay with the program!
Blessings,
Dawn

Hi everyone and thank you so much for being so supportive!

Don57:
You're absolutely right. I do have a big issue with my self-esteem, but of course working on this program will help me with it.
I know it's normal for guys to notice curves, but the things is that whenever we've spoken about this with by bf, he always says he never notices anyone's curves. He never has even an idea what they looked like at all. This sometimes makes me wonder if he's telling me the truth. This thinking comes from him telling me a lot of other lies about other things, but not women in the beginning of our relationship. He doesn't do it anymore. He keeps telling me that he knows that some men look at other women and see their curves, but he guarantees that I'm the only woman he sees. He also never noticed the female I noticed even existed when someone walked past or something. My friends have said the same things about him and after observing how he is. To me it's the most difficult thing to accept that I'd be the only one. Even if a lot of guys see other womens' curves, I don't think all do. I know a lot of women look at other men, but I never have.
I totally agree that it's ridiculous how much sexual content there is in media. I didn't watch the tv for almost 2 years because I felt so bad about it. I'm watching tv now, but not the most uncomfortable movies, but usually they're not my type of movies anyway.
I hope that with this program I can gain more control in my thoughts and insecurities and self-esteem. I know I will.
I think you're right about that I base too much of my self-esteem on my relationship with my bf. It's probably because that's what broke my self-esteem in the first place. Or I should say I let it break it. If he did something stupid, I should have thought it's not my fault. It's his mistake. The only problem was that my self-esteem would not have gone because of a few mistakes, but they were probably more like 50 and continuous.

Mary Wargo:
I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's having it hard to realize that not everyone else wants to change when I do. I'm sure we will find a way to do this.

Dawn,
Thank you for your nice words. I'll definitely keep with the program because it's the best thing that has happened to me since I got my anxiety.
I've tried very hard to change my way of communicating with my bf. I've been telling him more that I feel a bit insecure and you're right I need to become more sure to ask for what I need rather than asking questions. I have it very hard to ask for a hug. I feel it makes me look weak and I feel that maybe I'm so awful he doesn't want to hug me or mayve he sees it as me bothering him with stupid things. So I unfortunately go for the worse option and ask questions because of this and it's very silly. I need to find a way to use my assertive talking all the time.
I can't wait to go further in the program and find more ways to make myself towards better.

Thank you all so much for your support! And thank you for not putting me down for coming out with my fears. I've written somewhere else before a couple of times and people made me feel that I'm literally insane so it took me a lot of courage to write on this forum at all. So BIG THANK YOU!