Hi everyone. Just wanted to share some information on some nutrition topics I have seen posted on the forum. I have organized the information into relevant sections.

BRAIN LINK
I saw a post about Brain Link, a product from Pain & Stress Center (http://www.painstresscenter.com/mall/Brainlink.asp), on the forum. Please refer to the website to get information about the product and their claims, because I am assuming you all have read it. I wanted to share my evaluation of the product for those that are interested.
In MY OPINION, Brain Link is not a product that you would want to take. There are several reasons why I feel that is not the answer or a solution to our stress and anxiety. First, the Pain & Stress Center make dramatic claims about their product. They state that the product helps enhance brain function, lowers stress, and reduces cravings. Do you really think that this powder has that much affect on the health of our brains? Step back for a moment and really think this over. Doesn�t it sound too good to be true!? If they thought that the powder was so wonderful, don�t you think they would be rushing out to have clinical studies prove this, so that doctors and registered dietitians would prescribe it and thus increase their profits? And if the product was this effective, then they would have no problem proving it in numerous studies (which are needed in order to have the claims be included in reliable scientific journals and then accepted into nutrition knowledge). In addition to these statements, they make other statements such as �No other formula is this complete� and �A Total Neurotransmitter Complex�, obviously a sales pitch, and they do not site the �studies� to support their claims.
Aside from the product claims being unproven and dramatic, there are other things that concern me about the product. Brain Link is an amino acid supplement. Individual amino acids can be harmful because our bodies were not designed to handle high concentrations and unusual combinations of amino acids which are found in supplements (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996). We get the amino acids we need through proteins found in food, not from individual amino acids. According to Whitney & Rolfes, taking amino acids in supplemental form is especially inappropriate for all women of child bearing years, pregnant or lactating women, infants, children, adolescents, elderly, smokers, and people with chronic or acute mental or physical illness who use the supplements without medical supervision. Yet the Pain & Stress Center is marketing Brain Link to �everyone ages 2 to 100�. Another important fact to know is that if you consume more amino acids than your body needs for protein synthesis, excess amino acids are burned to create energy or they are stored as fat (Silverstone, 1998).
In addition to the fact that the amino acid supplement is not an appropriate supplement to your diet, it includes nonessential amino acids. GABA, glutamine, and glycine are amino acids, however they are not essential amino acids. An essential amino acid is an amino acid that must be ingested from food because the body can not produce enough to meet the body's needs on its own. Nonessential amino acids are amino acids that the body can produce on its own. However, the Pain & Stress Center is marketing GABA as though it is needed to be consumed every day. This is not so. In addition, they state that Brain Link provides nutrients which are needed for the production of neurotransmitters, however GABA, glutamine, and glycine are not essential nutrients!
If you look at the Supplement Facts Nutrition Label that is posted on the website, you will also see that there are nutrients that are in excess of the RDA and Daily Value. Remember that more does not mean better. Having more than the recommended intake can not only be unnecessary and a waste of money, but it can also be potentially harmful. In fact high doses can actually alter a nutrient�s action in the body (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).
Since the Pain & Stress Center says that Brain Link can be used in combination with all other supplements, I want to review SOME potential harm that can arise from nutrients taken in excess and some other important points. I obtained the following information from Understanding Nutrition by Eleanor Noss Whitney & Sharon Rad Rolfes:
-Vitamin D is the most likely vitamin to have toxic effects when consumed even in small amounts above the RDA, on a regular basis.
-Toxicity of Vitamin A affects all body systems; kids are especially vulnerable.
-Even though B Vitamin toxicities are uncommon, toxicity of the B Vitamins can occur when people overuse supplements. When cells are oversatuturated with a vitamin, the body has to work to eliminate the excess.
-Consumption of more than 2g of Vitamin C a day creates a distinct possibility of harm. Toxicity can result in nausea, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, headache, fatigue, insomnia, hot flashes, rashes, interference with medical tests, aggravation of gout symptoms, urinary tract problems, kidney stones, etc.
-Unlike the other water soluble vitamins, Vitamin B6 is stored extensively in muscle tissue. If taken in large quantities for months or years, Vitamin B6 can cause irreversible nerve damage. Consuming too much Vitamin B6 can also cause depression. In 1983 cases of Vitamin B6 toxicity were reported in women consuming more than 2g of the vitamin daily for 2 months or more.
-Biotin and Iodine are not recommended in supplemental form.
-There is no need to supplement phosphorous and magnesium.
-Inositol and PABA are not needed in human nutrition. Including such ingredients in the product demonstrates that the company is concerned about getting your money and not concerned with your health.
-There have been overdoses of choline (and its relative lecithin) reported. If taken in excess the short term problems include GI distress, sweating, salivation, anorexia (meaning loss of appetite); and the long term problems include injury to the nervous and cardiovascular systems.

BARLEY GREEN AND �GREEN PILLS�
If you are taking or thinking about taking Barley Green you may want to read the information on the following website: http://www.ncahf.org/articles/a-b/barleygreen.html .
�Green pills�, which contain dehydrated and crushed parsley, alfalfa, and other vegetable matter, are just another marketing ploy. The nutrients in these pills can be obtained from eating a serving of vegetables, which is less expensive. Another claim may be that the pills provide enzymes. However, the enzymes are inactivated in the stomach during digestion (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS
I want to address a few other topics about supplements that I think are important. First, it is important to understand that our bodies absorb nutrients from foods best. In foods, nutrients are diluted and dispersed with other ingredients which may assist in their absorption. In contrast, if you consume nutrients in pure concentrated forms (supplements), they are likely to interfere with each other�s absorption or with nutrients in foods that are eaten at the same time. It is risky to take supplements. The higher the dose of a nutrient the greater the chance for harm. Taking a pill is not �natural�; eating food is (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).
The second point I want to make is that testimonial/anecdotal information is not the same as scientifically proven theories. There are many variables in life. It is often hard to distinguish between cause and effect, correlation, etc. Therefore scientist use the scientific method, which is designed to help determine cause and effect, correlation, etc. by having a variable manipulated and holding all other possible variables constant or as constant as humanly possible. Scientific studies are randomized and have a control group. Results are statistically analyzed and conclusions are carefully drawn.
Testimonial �evidence�, however, lacks this thorough investigation and relies purely on what someone says. Someone�s experience may seem to them very real, however there are so many variables that it is not clear really what took place (and don�t forget the placebo effect!). That is why a testimonial statement is not a credible source of information, as scientific evidence is. Even scientists can find it a challenge to isolate a nutrient and confirm unquestionably a direct cause and effect or correlation between the things being studied.
The third point I want to make is about supplements and money. People seem really concerned with pharmaceutical companies profiting from their products, but what about supplement manufacturers? Pharmaceutical companies are made up of people. These people are dedicating their lives to looking for cures and treatments for diseases. Many have a true passion for finding true treatments. They may have loved ones who are ill and would like to be able to find something that could be of use to people suffering. Most likely they will in fact one day suffer from an illness that they would want help for. However, they understand that finding a drug that helps people takes time and thorough investigation. The potential drug has to be studied to determine whether it actually does what it is supposed to do, without unreasonable risk to people, before it goes on the market. The supplement manufacturer on the other hand is not looking to confirm its claims through a controlled process, but are instead making statements that are unfounded. Unlike pharmaceutical drugs, which must be proven safe and effective for their intended use before marketing (which is a safety factor against companies selling products with no evidence to just get money), dietary supplements do not need to be approved by the FDA for safety and effectiveness before they are sold to the consumer (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html). Supplement manufacturers make big profits from people who are desperately looking for solutions to their problems. For instance, making a claim that a supplement �relieves stress� is only a marketing ploy (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996). It provides people with a false sense of hope. For more information on the subject, visit http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/scivsalt.html and for additional information on related subjects visit http://www.quackwatch.org/.

SUGAR & ASPARTAME
There are a number of accusations against sugar which are not true. Sugar is accused of causing obesity, heart disease, misbehavior in children, and criminal behavior in adults. Sugar can contribute to obesity, however it does not CAUSE obesity by itself. As for heart disease, moderate intakes of sugar for most people do not influence the risk of heart disease. Finally, there is no scientific evidence linking sugar with hyperactivity or other misbehaviors (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).
Sugar can add pleasure to meals without harming people�s health if it is used in moderation. In excess it can be harmful in two ways. First, sugar supplies energy without nutrients and second, it can contribute to tooth decay (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).
As for the accusations against aspartame, they too are untrue. Aspartame has gone through extensive animal and human studies to determine its safety. It is one of the most studied food additives. Based on scientific research, it has been concluded that aspartame is safe for people to consume, except for those with an inherited disease called phenylketonuria (PKU) (Whitney & Rolfes, 1996).

I hope this information is helpful. Please refer to my other postings in response to �Fish for depression� to obtain additional reliable information. The links that I provided in that response also list other organizations which provide reliable nutrition information. Below are my references for those who would like to know where I got my information.

REFERENCES

Silverstone, Dee Unglaub (1998). Human Physiology. Upper Saddle River, New Jersey: Prentice Hall, Inc.

Whitney, Eleanor Noss & Rolfes, Sharon Rady (1996). Understanding Nutrition. St. Paul, MN: West Publishing Company.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html

Amethyst,

Personally, I've been taking Barleygreen for over 2 years now. I suffer from a digestive disease. I have ulcerative colitis. If you know anything about ulcerative colitis, you will understand that there are times when the body cannot digest raw or cooked vegetables properly and many times people with these disease are malnourished because they are not digesting foods properly because of the disease. Barleygreen is VERY easy to digest. And you are RIGHT....taking Barleygreen is just like eating vegetables!! For people who need extra nutrients, it's a safe way to "eat" those veggies and absorb them into the body without putting excess strain on the digestive system.
Without Barleygreen, I would not be in the health that I am in. You may feel that it's more expensive to purchase Barleygreen but I disagree. I take 2 TSP. per day and a container lasts me over a month. It's a good supplement, in my honest opinion, when you can't eat the way you should or suffer from a disease that prevents your body from digesting foods properly.

I understand you are trying to do good here by sharing your websites and opinions but I am a person who personally benefits from taking this product and there are many, many others that have as well. Just because there are no studies put out by the government to prove it, doesn't mean it's invalid.

There are many supplements that have been used around the world for YEARS and have been proven to be effective but this country and it's scientific research has yet to catch up. I don't think we need to wait to make personal choices because our country hasn't "prescribed" it. Is the research done by other countries invalid? Not in my opinion.

As for me, I believe strongly in eating a healthy diet and using supplements when needed.
Supplements are designed to "supplement" not to replace a healthy diet. I don't think anyone believes they can just take vitamins and/or other supplements and not have to worry about diet. That wouldn't make sense.

It would make sense to encourage people to eat healthy and do what they feel is best for them.
If they don't know their options, they don't know they have a CHOICE.

There is an excellent website dedicated to educating people about vitamins, supplements and diet. For anyone considering taking an amino acid, it's a good idea to do a little research before you begin. Learning what they are, what they do, and how they can help and potential problems is all part of taking control of your health.

Many people have been helped by taking natural supplements. Everyone needs to do what's best for them since we are not "cookie cutter" people.


http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10003,00.html

Hi Amethyst98,
I understand that you have a great belief in what you've written here, but I have to say that I don't agree with the majority of it. In fact the only thing I do agree with is that it's important to maintain a healthy diet.
I noticed that most of your quotes are from one source and a source that I myself would not rely on. The information you shared does not go along with many things I have read, to which I found very reputable, or/and experienced for myself. I don't want to get into a debate on this. This is from my own convictions and again I understand that you're sharing from your own conviction.
The only thing I would like to add, is that more and more doctors in the US are recommending dietary supplements. Why would they do this if there is no credibility in them and also if these doctors do not benefit from this at all? I believe supplements used wisely are a great benefit as do many people, again including doctors and many "healthy" individuals will attest to this also. I know there are many credible websites available that will also attest to this and can explain better than I about these "scientifically proven theories". I don't have the time to look up these websites and post them, but if I can find time I will do so. I just encourage anyone reading this thread to do their own research.
I also know that the foods we eat now do not contain the nutrients they once did due to depletion of vitamins and minersals in the soils that they are grown in. Just this alone is cause for one to seriously consider supplementation.
As for the GABA, it is not found in significant amounts in foods. It is produced almost exclusively in the body. Those holding doctorates in nutrition and degrees in natural medicine know the validity in how helpful supplementing with this product can be. And this product is considered "medicine" in other countries.
The FDA is trying their best to gain authority over dietary supplements. There is a current bill in the works, the "Dietary Supplement "Safety" Act, to gain this control. Here is a great website in the type of control the FDA hopes to gain. http://www.apma.net/ The FDA, I believe (and so do many others), does not always act in our best interest. We are intelligent people. We definitely do not need such stringent government control in every area of our lives.
Another bill is also in the works of trying to be passed. DSHEA Full Implementation and Enformcement Act of 2003 (S.1538) This bill will provide much-needed funding for research and consumer education to the National Institute of Health's Office of Dietary Supplements.
Dietary supplements come from natural ingredients so they can't be patented. While this ensures that these products are readily and affordably available, it takes away the ability of manufacturers to recoup research costs.
I believe, firmly, that supplementation of vitamins, minerals as well as herbal remedies are very safe and beneficial taken in a wise manor. And there are many wonderful, well educated websites that can be found to help and educate us. I also can attest to the benefits of these, as can many, many others, including "good" doctors.
Here is a great website on how dietary supplements are regulated in the US, by the DSHEA, for safety, as well as a wonderful site with well educated information on dietary supplements. http://www.supplementinfo.org/industry/regulations.htm

Sunset,
Wow, I am a bit surprised at your response to my post. I find it very judgmental of my intentions. As I said in previous posts, I am only offering the information in hopes of someone finding it helpful. In my first post, I was responding to Victoria�s post out of a sincere belief that I was contributing some information that she may of found helpful. I did not know whether she was aware of what I shared or not, so I thought I would offer it. After I posted, a discussion began, so I entered that discussion. There were a few members who seemed to appreciate my input and requested me to continue sharing. When I saw other nutrition discussions on the forum I did not offer my opinion and disrupt a conversation you were having with others, since I realize that I am not going to change your mind on things. Instead, I decided to start my own post to share information on subjects others seemed to be interested in. I don�t question your intentions or anyone else�s intentions on this forum. I think it is close minded if you think that opinions, other than your own, are not helpful to others. I do not feel I was �slamming� others. I never said that people are stupid if they take supplements and I never said that you or anyone else can�t take supplements if you decide it is best for you. I was offering what I believe is important information that people should know in regards to their health, so they can make their own choices. In fact you seem to �slam� scientists, the USA, and pharmaceutical companies yourself. It saddens me that you have such a distrust for your own country.
I spent several hours developing my post so I could show others my thought process and how I analyzed the situation. That is what everyone else is doing on all other post topics. Everyone is trying to offer a perspective which hopefully �clicks� with someone. In fact in Lucinda�s book she states her opinion about medications and doctors who prescribe them. She is not slamming anyone, she is just offering her opinion. You can take it or leave it.
In regards to your question about why I am against supplements, please refer to my previous posts. There I explained my concerns. I also mentioned that there are conditions where supplements are necessary. However, a physician or registered dietitian should determine this.
In response to the Barley Green question, I stated that �green pills� are expensive. I did not make a comment about Barley Green�s cost. The statement about green pills is not my opinion, I obtained this information from my nutrition textbook (see my references).
As far as your comments about me discounting other countries, I don�t know where that came from. I never said anything remotely close to that, so I am not going to address that.
Anyway, I am not here to argue, but instead I am here to offer help to those who agree with my perspective or would consider my perspective. As I said in my last post, I was offering my analysis to those who are interested. If you do not like my take on things then don�t read my posts. I don�t plan on stepping in on other people�s conversations about their supplement use, etc., so I won�t be imposing my opinions on others.
I don�t believe I should have to continuously defend my intentions. I may be struggling with anxiety and low self esteem, but there is one thing I know about myself and that is I am a very sincere and caring person. I don�t try to be mean to people. I really do care about not hurting others and I sincerely do hope that my posts have gotten people to at least consider the perspective I am presenting. I shared the information because I truly believe the information is important for good health. I would hate it if someone was chasing after a miracle pill or diet to �cure� their anxiety and depression, to only find out later that they weren�t helping the situation. I think the answers to our anxiety and depression problems lies more in our thought process than our diet.

Amethyst,

It's very unfortunate that you took my post so negatively. As you can see from what I posted here, I didn't slam the USDA, scientists, the USA, OR pharmaceutical companies. Please quote what I said that gives you this impression.

quote:

As far as your comments about me discounting other countries, I don�t know where that came from. I never said anything remotely close to that, so I am not going to address that.

This is what I said above: "Is the research done by other countries invalid? Not in my opinion"
The reason why I said this is because supplements have been used for years, if not, centuries successfully by other countries. If it works for them, we should be able to benefit from their studies and their years of experience on these matters. I never said that you discounted other countries. I simply told you that I didn't believe that the research done by other countries was invalid. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

quote:

In response to the Barley Green question, I stated that �green pills� are expensive. I did not make a comment about Barley Green�s cost.

I don't remember asking you a question about Barleygreen I read the link you provided on Barleygreen and Green Magma and the article calls it just another "marketing ploy".
I think anyone that is interested in reading about Barleygreen would be mislead by that article. I find the product very useful and true to it's word. The great thing about it, is that it's like eating vegetables. I don't think the average person eats as many vegetables as they are supposed to eat. Taking the barley juice is convenient and ensures that I "eat" what I am supposed to eat.

quote:

If you do not like my take on things then don�t read my posts.

I don't agree with everything you share and that's OK. I don't expect everyone to agree with everything I share either. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to read my posts or share their view.

I added a link to website to help educate people inquiring about amino acids. Although you shared some information already, I shared a site to add to your information for those who are interested in learning more.

Amethyst, I believe you are a very sincere and caring person. I don't believe you are out to hurt anyone. I believe your intentions are good. But at the same time, I believe you are putting alot of effort into discrediting supplements and their use. We all know there is no miracle "cure" for anxiety, only that which we learn firsthand by using the skills in this program. There are some people who have been working this program for a long time and they have learned all the skills but find themselves still struggling with body symptoms. Since anxiety can be caused by in imbalance, either in the brain or the body, it makes all the sense in the world for people to check and see if perhaps they are deficient by trying a supplement. Diet CAN help someone with an anxiety problem, if their anxiety is due to a deficiency. Not all anxiety symptoms are started in the mind, sometimes it's the body due to imbalance.

The books you shared are probably good for 1996 and 1998, but alot has happened since then. Studies have been conducted and more research is being shared with the public. Things are changing and it's a good thing in my opinion.
I don't know anyone that wouldn't rather find a natural approach that worked before taking a conventional medicine that caused many terrible side effects.

Anyways....I think it's important that you reread what I posted. Please see that I wasn't trying to hurt you or offend you. Instead, I am sharing what I know about Barleygreen firsthand and I wanted to share that the information on that website you shared does not balance with my personal experience. I don't like reading things that suggests that what I am taking is a mere "marketing ploy" because it has great benefits for me and others that take it.

Hi Sunset:
Just wanted to respond to your post.
1) Here are some of your quotes that led me to my statement:
-"I would like to know why our country hasn't caught on to the studies of other countries who have been using stuff like this, among other natural alternatives, for anxiety and other ailments. Why does it seem our country is far behind in studies of this kind?"- I took the statement to mean that our scientist just are not up to speed with the rest of the world, which truely is not accurate. If we are so far behind, why do people flock to the US for medical treatment?
-"Perhaps if they find out how much money supplements are making and how many people want natural alternatives, they will consider getting into the business themselves and really take it more seriously. Money shouldn't be the issue but it is." -I think scientist do take things seriously.
-"Most suppliers do not follow the rules of planting and harvesting and are more concerned about the almighty dollar. They plant their foods in malnourished soil. Unless a person buys organic and high quality foods from a good supplier, you cannot be guaranteed that the foods you are eating everyday, even if they are good choices, are healthy enough." -As I have said before, this is really a bad assumption. I know that there are people out there trying to make you believe this, but it just is not true.
-"I don't think we need to wait to make personal choices because our country hasn't "prescribed" it."- true, you have the right to make your own decision, but don't be so negative on our system.
-"Just because there are no studies put out by the government to prove it, doesn't mean it's invalid."- it kind of sounded like you felt our govt. is not trying to help us and is wrongfully discounting credible info.
-and you stated your concerns about taking pharmaceutical drugs which potentially have a bunch of side effects, yet there does not seem to be the same backlash on supplement manufacturers who are producing products that we don't fully know all of the side effects of or even the effects of. You seem to discount science and the scientifc process.
-you edited your post which stated that I was "slamming" the alternative medicine (you deleted the slamming statement), so I can't go get your quote on that one. But that was another quote.
2) Sorry I had a typo. Instead of Barley Green question I meant Barley Green statement.
3) Just as you feel that my link about Barley Green is misleading, I think some of your posts are misleading. But I know you are NOT trying to intentionally misguide people.
4) I am not saying you can't or shouldn't read my post. I just offered the thought because I was getting the impression that you were finding what I had to say offensive and a threat. I just don't think you ought to assume my intentions and then speak out as if I said something offensive or was trying to stir up trouble.
5) Yes, I put a lot of effort into my posts. As I said before, I wanted to present an analysis of the topic. I felt that in order to offer something to those that are reading, I had to spend some time thoroughly researching my point and then sharing it with everyone to help educate them. That is just the way I am, very diligent. What I am sharing is what is being taught in accredited colleges across the nation. The classes are taught by extremely informed individuals who spend their life researching nutrition.
6) I am not discrediting the MWC program either. If you have read my other posts, I have said how much Lucinda's book has been helpful and I have offered positive thoughts toward other's posts. Why would I waste my time trying to bring something or someone down? If I did not think her program was helpful I wouldn't waste my time on it.
7)Yes the books were published in the late '90s but they are being used by college courses ( I just graduated from college). When a new edition comes out then the professor uses the new edition, and they may be using a new edition (new editions typically just update individual info or add to topics, etc. but it is not a complete rewrite of the book) since I took the specific classes. However, it does not mean the information is not up to date. I checked on line to see if there were any updates to any of the information I was planning on sharing. Where I saw updates, I included this uptodate info. As I said before, contrary to popular belief, nutrition info doesn't change as drastically as is being reported. However, it is true that you have to keep uptodate, and that is what I did.
7) I know plenty of people who rather take a prescription drug over supplements (for many of the reasons I have previously stated).

Just as you and others are trying to make sure people are not mislead, so am I. I personally feel that supplement manufacturers are playing on people's emotions to sell their products. That is my opinion. I don't think that people should feel ashamed if they get drawn into the information because I can understand how people are desperately looking for a solution.
I really am not sure why you feel that giving a thorough investigation of a topic is threatening (I am responding to the point that you made about me trying to discredit supplements and the program). I did it for two specific reasons: first, I really enjoy nutrition and sharing what I know ; second I would like people to really think about science and understand it is not as bad as you may think and that it is in fact there for your safety . I wanted to provide, those who are interested, some useful information and analyzing skills. I noticed you share a lot of information on nutrition related topics throughout the forum, so I thought I would share my knowledge. I am very confident in my sources and stand by my statements.
I hear what you said about how you were not questioning my sincerity and I accept it.

Hi Sunset:
I forgot to mention one last thing.
I read your original post last night (before you deleted parts of your statement).
Thanks for deleting your comments (from your very first post on the topic) about me "slamming" the alternative medicine and the comments about how you did not understand why I was posting what I did. I wrote my response this afternoon in response to your original statemens from last night (I did not reread your statement this morning before posting my reply, so I did not see those changes until now). That is what I was upset about and that is why I replied. I don't have a problem with what you are saying now that you edited out those paticular statements.

Amethyst,

It would have been alot less confusing to read this thread knowing you were replying to my ideas and statements to a different thread in the forum.

I had no idea why you said all that you said based on what I said in THIS particular thread.

I understand you have your own opinions about me and my ideas but that's OK. I am totally OK with that. I don't find your ideas or beliefs threatening at all. I simply want people to know that it's not a bad thing to try supplements if they want to. Most people don't even know they exist or that they even have a choice.

The facts are, regardless of how either of us view one another, what one another believes to be true or what the other believes about our intents in these posts, supplements are there and they help many, many people. If they work GREAT, if they don't, then nothing is lost and there are plenty of other things they can try. Either way, they exist and it gives many people hope in something natural. Many people do not want to take psychiatric drugs and for good reason. As I have said before, and I will say again.... I am sure most people would prefer natural over conventional. That doesn't mean natural herbs, vitamins, and amino acids will always help their problem. I thank God for conventional medicine. I am not anti-doctor, anti-medicine, but I firmly believe that if there is a natural method that works and is healthier than conventional methods, it would be prefered by most.

You have touched on so many of the things I said in a previous post and it would be impossible for me to find the time to discuss/debate every one of them.

So I guess, I will just leave it alone and let my ideas and my beliefs be mine and I will still share them when I see fit. I am comfortable with this. If someone is asking about supplements, I'll share what I know. You go ahead and share what you know and in the future, we can know how eachother feels and/or believes about supplements.

I'm sure you learned alot in college about nutrition and I think that's wonderful. But lets remember that there are professionals out there that specialize in amino acids, herbs and vitamins. Each of them know something special about the subject they study. I am grateful for all the information available to us in this world.

I did edit my original post that asked why you felt it was necessary to "slam" supplement use.
You say that's not what you are doing, but it sure seemed like it. Excuse me for assuming. I assumed because the majority of what you had to share about supplements was negative. I edited the original post because I felt the world "slam" was too strong and I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

BTW- In reading all those "quotes" and what you had to say about them- it seems to me that you have assumed your own ideas about the things I said. You are not right about all of them, because much of what you "think" I meant is wrong but I don't need to defend my statements either. If you want to know how I am truly feeling or thinking, you will ask me.

The reason I did not post directly to individual statements is becaue I was not trying to create a debate on the issue, since I knew that you and others strongly believe in supplementation. I did not want to interrupt your conversation to just give my opinion on a topic. I did not want you to think, "oh here she goes, interrupting our own post to push her opinion!"
So instead I have been just reading over a bunch of posts and saw what was being said and thought I would put out the other side of the story. I thought people could read my post over and get what they want out of it.
You did read my post correctly , when you concluded that I have, in general, negative views on supplements. This is true. But by sharing the other side of the story, I am not slamming anyone or trying to put anyone down. I wanted to make it clear to people too, that supplements are considered, in the nutritional science community, to be risky.
I totally agree with your following statement: "So I guess, I will just leave it alone and let my ideas and my beliefs be mine and I will still share them when I see fit. I am comfortable with this. If someone is asking about supplements, I'll share what I know. You go ahead and share what you know and in the future, we can know how eachother feels and/or believes about supplements." I will do the same. When I share it is not meant as a challenge but an alternative thought that is out there.
Just so you know, I am not making any personal evaluations of what kind of person you are .

amethyst,

I would find it most intesting for you to share the knowledge you have on "foods". Spending your time sharing what foods might be helpful to someone suffering from anxiety and/or depression would probably be more beneficial than debating what others offer for advice.

Personally I believe that psychiatric drugs pose a larger risk to potential side effects and unwanted body symptoms, but If I was to share articles on why psychiatric drugs were risky and harmful, it may deter someone from actually seeking help when they need it most. As you know, people with anxiety feed off of negativity and most are afraid to put anything into their bodies. But If I was to list websites and quote books on the risks, I am sure I may be reprimanded by the MWC moderator for the very fact that I could be getting in the way of someone needing help. So I have changed my focus to sharing the good that I know by sharing websites, books that I read,and my own personal experience, etc....

Why not spend your quality time sharing all the good that you know about "foods" ? This is your speciality isn't it? I am sure we could learn alot from you in this area.

quote:

-and you stated your concerns about taking pharmaceutical drugs which potentially have a bunch of side effects, yet there does not seem to be the same backlash on supplement manufacturers who are producing products that we don't fully know all of the side effects of or even the effects of. You seem to discount science and the scientifc process.

BTW...I have only been talking about Amino Acids, vitamins and minerals, and herbs that have been proven effective through years of experience, whether it be other countries or even our own country. I am not suggesting that ALL supplements are good because there are many things on the market today that are bad like Ephedra. Called a "dietary supplement", I think things like this must be taken off the market. Just because something is called a "supplement" doesn't make it good. The discussions we've been having lately about supplements have to do with supplements used for anxiety and/or depression and the ones that we are talking about have been proven safe and effective with minimal risks and people have been using them for years, if not centuries.

We've had group discussion on a book called "Breaking the grip of dangerous emotions" by Janet Maccaro, PH.D, C.N.C. For the most part, many of us found the book of great interest and we learned that there are many alternatives to feeling better. Having so many options open to people today gives them more control over their health and recovery. Perhaps you would consider reading the book and adding your commentary in that group folder discussion on the book ( ?) Just a suggestion.

quote:

Myth - There is not enough scientific data to support the safety and efficacy of most dietary supplements


Fact - Adding to the large body of scientific evidence supporting the health benefits of dietary supplements, each year, numerous studies are published in major medical journals that document new findings about how dietary supplements can be used to address specific conditions, reduce the risk of diseases or to enhance general nutrition. Such studies can be found in The Journal of the American Medical Association, New England Journal of Medicine, American Journal of Cardiology, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.

Besides newly published research studies on the benefits of dietary supplements from such leading institutions as Johns Hopkins University and the American Heart Association, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act created the Office of Dietary Supplements within the National Institutes of Health to focus specifically on advancing the study of dietary supplements in this country. Since starting operations in November 1995, ODS has held symposia and has sponsored numerous studies to study the effectiveness of commonly used supplements.


Updated: March 16, 2003

quoted by Dietary Supplement Information Bureau http://www.supplementinfo.org/industry/myths.htm

Hi Amethyst,
In reading what you've written here, it sounds as though you have felt lead to share your knowledge on this subject so that others will not be mislead by what others share that go against what you believe to be true.
I would like you to consider for a moment, that many highly educated people have studied and recommend supplementation of vitamins, minerals, herbal products and other supplements. And also take into account that many have benefitted greatly from supplementation, myself included.
As you know we are reviewing Dr. Janet Maccarro's book which goes into supplementation to aid in the recovery of anxiety disorder and depression. And Lucinda Bassett has highly recommended Dr. Janet's book due to her extensive knowledge on the subject.
Consider again, that MANY have benefitted from this knowledge. Consider that just perhaps many more will benefit from what I and others have shared here. I'd also like to say that you started out this thread putting down "BrainLink". I understand that you believe this is not a helpful product, but that does not make it so. Have you considered that perhaps this BrainLink may benefit and help someone, and that your shooting it down could have kept someone from finding the extra help they needed to continue to heal? Supplements have helped many people, whether you want to believe this or not. Many can attest to this and that really does say a lot. You may feel that people are being mislead here by our posts on supplementation, but I have to disagree with you greatly and I hope you might just concider that if people are finding help through supplements that just perhaps they really do benefit people. When Ph.D's, M.D.'s and all those that have done extensive studies on the subject of supplements, highly recommend supplementing with vitamins, minerals, etc., validating their safeness and their effectiveness, I believe this gives one more than enough reason to give supplemenation a try, in a wise manor of course.
I, myself, have benefitted greatly from supplementation of vitamins, minerals, herbal remedies, and amino acids. I highly recommend others give them a try and I highly recommend the sight I posted previo
And I do agree with you, as I state in my posts regarding supplements, that these supplements are not the "cure" for anxiety and/or depression. There is no one thing that is a cure. But diet plays a large role in ones recovery and in my belief, supplementation. Even in the workbook Dr. Fisher has written regarding the aid of supplementation. As I have mentioned before MANY doctors highly recommend the benefits of supplementing ones diet. Here is an article titled "Journal Of The American Medical Association Announces Recommendation That All Adults Should Take Vitamins". http://www.supplementinfo.org/latest_news/news_release_062602.htm
I'm sure you are familiar with this research journal.
Just as strongly as you feel to post on your beliefs to benefit others on this forum, I do as well and that is why I am sharing here.
Again I believe STRONGLY in the benefits of supplementaion of vitamins, minerals, herbs, and amino acids. Used in a wise manor I believe that many can benefit from these also, and I do believe they can aid greatly in ones healing. Again they are not a cure, but I believe they can be a significant part of the healing process. I believe that cognitive behavioral therapy (changing our thought process into a healthy, positive one), diet, exercise, relaxation, a healthy lifestyle, along with supplements are the "cure". This is what I believe as do many others.
I just hope that you may consider that this could actually be true, that many have actually been helped by these types of supplements, even if it goes against what you have learned. Again, I realize that your beliefs are strong and that your motive is to help others by what you have learned just as I have. So we can agree to disagree and move on with "sharing what we know".
Wishing you the best as you continue to move forward in your healing and growth.

Sunset & Grateful:
I am fine with you and your beliefs. I don't agree with what you have said, but you are entitled to your opinions.
I don't think it is a fair evaluation to say that I am being negative and preventing people from getting help. I think giving people information is very positive and people can make up their own mind (they are not stupid, they know how to think for themselves). (Whenever anyone is worried about another opinion out there, it shows that they don't feel their opinion can hold up against analysis.) Having only half the story does not allow people to make up their own mind.
Analyzing something does not mean you are putting something down.
In fact, as I said before, I was encouraged to share information by someone else on the forum.