Here is some information on L-tryptophan, GABA, Stevia, and Kava. The main point here is that just because something is �natural� it does not mean it is safe or effective. I want to emphasize again that dietary supplements do NOT need to be approved by the FDA for safety and effectiveness before they are sold to the consumer. Additionally, manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements are NOT required by law to record, investigate, or forward any reports of injuries or illness from use of their product to the FDA (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html).

L-tryptophan:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/trypto.html
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-prod.html#try

GABA:
*pay attention to the fact that GABA supplements are NOT recommended
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/73/88950.htm?lastse...6-A91C-9531713CA348} --GABA

Stevia: http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/stevia.html

Kava: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/addskava.html

Orthomolecular Therapy: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ortho.html

Appropriate uses of dietary supplements: http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/supplements.html

quote:

While there are over-the-counter GABA supplements available at most health foods -- sold as an insomnia remedy -- Doghramji advises against them.

Doghramji may not recommend GABA supplements but there are many that do.

From the sounds of this article, they are working on creating other GABA-stimulating drugs. This is good news for all of us concerned. I believe if they can develop a safer, more comfortable medication with virtually no side effects such as GABA supplements, more people would find satisfaction in treatment and the involvement of their doctors.

Just my thoughts.

Ps) have you found anything on L-Theanine? Just curious.

Hello Sunset:
Refer to this quote from the GABA article:
"While there are over-the-counter GABA supplements available at most health foods -- sold as an insomnia remedy -- Doghramji advises against them.

We just don't have any data on them. We do not know how much GABA is really in the supplement or the product's purity. There are no studies backing up the claims made by the supplement manufacturers."

Again, I think there are many people who would not want to be a guinea pig, so this information may be of use to them. But if you disagree, it doesn't matter to me. It is your body and your choice.
Yes, I agree it is great that research is progressing and finding more and more treatments for problems. It is amazing how far we have come on treating illness that once killed people or really disrupted their lives.
I will look up the L-theanine for you and get back to you on that. Thanks for your interest.

Amethyst,
I don't understand why you are taking numerous things from posts we have shared on the book "Breaking the Grip of Dangerous Emotions" and going out finding "info" to contradict what we have shared.
We are intelligent people here. I believe we can do our own research. Again even Lucinda Bassett has highly recommended this book and the research and information Dr. Janet has shared.
To balance this thread, here are a few sites that others can look through if interested.
Myths of supplemental safety. http://www.supplementinfo.org/industry/myths.htm
FDA approval? http://www.fdareview.org/harm.shtml
FDA and Stevia. http://www.stevia.net/fda.htm

Grateful:
You're the only one who seems to think you have to go "balance" someone elses thread. I think this is quite arrogant on your part. Again, as I have said before other members have shown interest in information on topics that I have knowledge on. You are trying to control what others say. That is not right.
I'm glad you have found something you feel works for you. To think that I have just begun researching information about what YOU are reading is really believing that things revolve around yourself. The true fact is that I have been researching this kind of stuff for many years now. When I saw that there was a section on Nutrition I thought I really could make a difference in this area by sharing what I do know and my philosophy on life.
I ask that you not try to "balance" anyone else's posts. Anyone can start their own post. Things are not just about you.
I know my post has been helpful to some people, whether they have spoken up or not. Nothing you say to me is going to change what I do, because I know that what I am doing is good and has a benefit. Stop wasting your time trying to control what I say. It is not going to get you anywhere here, or in life in general. I ask that you and others stop this type of arguing and "balancing" because it is ridiculous.
One last thing. Just because Lucinda advocates something doesn't mean it is right. While I think her book was great and very helpful, I totally disagree with her take on supplements and nutrition. But that is ok. Don't do an "all-or-nothing" distortion. You can accept some of what someone says and think it is very valuable information, and then disregard other things. That is actually a much better way of doing things. It makes you think for yourself.
I hope this clears up my end.

Amethyst,

I must say that the portrait you painted of Grateful is totally incorrect. She cares very much about EACH and every individual here in the forum and she is trying to protect the very truths she has personally learned about supplements she is taking and I can't say that I blame her for telling you how she feels.

It is one thing to join a discussion on something like GABA and inform everyone of the dangers or concerns of certain products within the discussion but to create a separate folder just to PROTEST the very things that have been very helpful to many people seems totally wrong in my opinion.

If you want to be helpful, why not share what you know in the post it's being discussed in ?

You seem to have this idea that if we don't agree with your view that we shouldn't post in your thread but this is a public forum available to everyone with different opinions and views.
Grateful had every right to share the other side of the topic and her views.

You are welcome to share what you know, but at the same time, we are welcome to share what we know.... let's allow the reader to determine what's right in their own mind. Seriously, the only way a reader can do that is by reading the PRO'S and the CON'S.

Grateful isn't the only one that believes threads should be "balanced". Things should never be one sided. People should be able to share everything they know, think, feel or believe. We are all so different and hearing everyone's views and beliefs is being "balanced" and "healthy".

It does seem as though you are going around "protesting" the very subjects we have been discussing. Almost like posting forum Billboards. Why not just share your links in the discussions that are being held? That way you are being heard and readers can investigate the links you share within PUBLIC group forum discussions?

A couple years back when I began posting here in this forum, I posted threads hoping to only hear from those that agreed with me. It didn't take long to learn that the forum doesn't work that way. It's a PUBLIC forum where everyone can share and it's unrealistic to expect people who disagree to stay out the discussion.

Sunset:
I'm not trying to attack Grateful I was just responding to an attack I thought she was engaging in. I have NO problem with her sharing her information, but it was the way she said it that bothered me.
I assumed that the best way to share my information was to share it in my own post because I figured that you and grateful would not appreciate me "interrupting" any of your discussions (I don't think you are interrupting me, I just assummed from the fish for depression post that you did not appreciate me putting my input into your posts).
I haven't had a problem with how you have been sharing in my posts lately. Your tone completely changed and you were engaging in what I felt was a much better conversation.
Making comments like "In order to balance out the post" is to imply you have to go take care of a problem. Instead of just sharing.
When people ask me to stop sharing then that is trying to control what I say. I don't want to control what you say because frankly, I don't care.
Anyways, Sunset I don't have a problem with you I think we have gotten on the same page. I did not appreciate the remarks Grateful made that is all. I don't have a personal opinion of Grateful, I don't know her. But I did have a problem with what she said to me so I wanted to respond.
Let's not get in a back in forth again . I just think making little remarks is impolite. I will continue to share my point of view without making it personal, I expect the same from everyone else. So as I have said before, continue to share your information like you do in the book discuss I think that is energy well spent. But you all have to understand that what I am doing is beneficial too and is again, not an attack on anyone.
If after reading this, you conclude that you would like me to share in your discussions, let me know. I can do this. However, it is still my decision where I post the information. This is not yours to determine and I don't think you should control this. If you want to share in my posts, that is fine with me too, but refrain from the statements about how I am disruptive and have horrible intentions.

Hopefully, some objective info on GABA...

GABA (Gamma-Amino Butyric Acid)
What does it do?
GABA is a natural calming and anti-epileptic agent in the brain that is manufactured from the amino acid glutamine and glucose.

Since GABA does not cross the blood-brain barrier very well (i.e., it cannot be transported efficiently into the brain from the bloodstream), virtually all of the GABA found in the brain is manufactured there.1 For that reason, supplemental GABA would not be expected to increase levels of GABA in the brain. Two doctors have reported that GABA is beneficial in the treatment of a variety of brain disorders, including epilepsy and schizophrenia.2 However, those reports have not been substantiated with clinical trials. High intake of GABA was shown to produce a significant increase in plasma growth-hormone levels (single administration of 5,000 mg) and prolactin (daily administration of 18,000 mg for four days) in one human study3 but the clinical significance of these observations is not clear.

Where is it found?
GABA is found as a nutritional supplement, primarily in capsules and tablets.

Who is likely to be deficient?
Some people with anxiety, panic disorders, and depression may not manufacture sufficient levels of GABA.

How much is usually taken?
Some doctors recommend GABA in the amount of 200 mg four times daily.

Are there any side effects or interactions?
The safety of GABA supplementation has not been demonstrated in human trials.

At the time of writing, there were no well-known drug interactions with GABA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
References:
1. Waagepetersen HS, Sonnewald U, Schousboe A. The GABA paradox: multiple roles as metabolite, neurotransmitter, and neurodifferentiative agent. J Neurochem 1999;73:1335-42.

2. Braverman E, Pfieffer C. The Healing Nutrients Within. In Facts, Findings and New Research on Amino Acids. New Canaan, CT: Keats Publishing, 1987.

3. Cavagnini F, Invitti C, Pinto M. Effect of acute and repeated administration of gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) on growth hormone and prolactin secretion in man. Acta Endocrinol 1980;93:149-54.

Also, I read through the links you posted on Stevia and they're very vague as to why the FDA hasn't approved Stevia as a sugar substitute

quote:

Although no harm to humans has been documented, laboratory studies have raised questions about its safety [1].

There is nothing further as to what kinds of studies and what the findings were. I have been using it for a while, as I feel it is a 'safer' alternative to the chemicals found in other sugar substitutes. Just my two cents.

Hi SuzzaneMarie:
Thanks for sharing. You provided very helpful information. Explains it well. Thanks.
I don't know a whole lot about Stevia, but I thought I would just share that link with you (I happened to run across it while looking over that website). What it sounds like to me is that the safety hasn't fully been determined. That is all I got out of that. I agree that the article was a bit vauge (could have been better). I just noticed you were taking Stevia and thought it might be helpful. That is all. It sounds like their understanding of Stevia is vague. Glad you are weighing your options that is my goal with this.

Thanks for reading the posts. I hope you found it helpful.

Just FYI- The GABA supplement that I take is ALL NATURAL and is derived from SUGAR BEETS!!!!!
YEP that's right SUGAR BEETS!!!! What about that? I think that's wonderful because it's NOT synthetic like other forms on the market !!

Amethyst,
So you're saying that you just happened to post on the topics of "BrainLink, Greenbarley, GABA, Stevia, Kava, Aromatherapy" due to your past research? Yet here you just stated that you noticed SuzanneMaria was taking Stevia and that you didn't know much about this product but thought you'd share an article you found. Hmmm
As for my mentioning Lucinda, I mentioned her because I knew you were familiar with her and felt that you might respect her opinion over others you had know clue of who they were. Being that Lucinda has done a great deal of research on anxiety disorder and depression with the consultation of medical doctors, and has helped tens of thousands of people, and that she highly recommended the book we are reading, I thought that you might of thought twice about sharing articles here that contradict what we have been sharing. That you might of thought perhaps there might be �some� truth in what is being shared.
You seem to feel that you have to "protect" people here by sharing what you view as the truth. The truth is, is that we are all intelligent people here. We can do our own research. We all have access to the Internet.
How would you feel if you brought up things that have helped you and someone went around starting topics how these things are not "really" helpful, not due to experience but due to their research, while giving links to what you may view as biased information? I believe you would have been just as annoyed as I and would feel you have a right to speak up on the subjects you had first brought up. Again I realize that you said that you just happened to bring up these subjects, but then again in your threads you have said that you were referring to posts you saw on these subjects, which included you specifically speaking of my post regarding the BrainLink.
I hope you may see where I am coming from. Again people are not as naive as you might think. People can seek help through many avenues, and these things may bring them great relief, maybe a little relief or perhaps none at all. Everyone is different. And I strongly believe if something doesn't work for someone, they will know it was the product and not themselves that was the problem.
I respect your opinions and I will not go out of my way to contradict them, but I do have a right to defend my own. I just ask that you may also be considerate of others opinions and what others may share.

Sunset,
Thank you for your kind words here. Much appreciated.

Grateful:
What I meant was I have been doing research on those types of topics for many years. I had a feel for what the nutrition community would say about some of the stuff posted on the forum, because I understand nutrition. So the reason I looked up the EXACT supplement or topic was to share the knowledge I have, but give the specific information for that supplement/topic. Plus I thought people would get more out of an article written by an organization or doctor than always from me. Plus I am always looking up stuff on my own because I find it interesting. Since I looked up nutrition information (for my own pleasure) I decided to share. So no I did not have to look up or research to find out if the supplements or treatments were a healthy option or were effective in what they claim, I knew this already. I looked up the information to get specifics (in books I own or websites I am aware of) on topics that seemed of interest to people on the forum. Does that clear it up? No, I don't think anyone is naive. I am not trying to fool anyone, you just misunderstood what I was getting at. I was just letting you know that I have been studying this (nutrition and science) and looking up credible sources for many years now (and sharing what I know with people) so it did not just begin with you. The problem here is that you think I am up to no good so you are assuming anything that comes out of my mouth (computer) must be misleading or intended to mislead. You got it all wrong. You know the distortion "mind reading"; you're guilting of this in this situation.
I did just happen to come across Stevia (while reading over a website for my own enjoyment) and since in the past, SuzanneMarie appreciated the information I provided, I thought I would share it because I am always looking for good nutrition information and I thought she might too. In fact, she contributed a great article on GABA and I am glad she shared it. I have been looking for information like that (it takes a lot of time to search for information on nutrition because you have to sift through it) because I knew that there had to be an explanation like that (because I have an understanding of how science and nutrition work). And yes I did give you an analysis of BrainLink. But again, I did not HAVE to look up anything to know the product would not be recommended by registered dietitians. I did look up and give reference so that I could explain it right so people could follow what I was saying. A little different than what you were saying......
And the reason I am sharing what I know about forum topics is because I feel strongly that what I am sharing is good information that is essential for good health.
Hope you got this clear now.
Anyway, you and Sunset both keep mentioning it is an open forum. So if it is an open forum why can't I share what I know? I'm sure Lucinda understands that not everyone believes EVERYTHING she says or shares. Just like Lucinda, I was sharing what I know.
You just don't seem to like the fact that there is another opinion out there (and the opinion I have is backed up with science both in the medical and nutrition fields). Are you saying registered dietitians don't know what they are talking about? I don't think so. They are highly educated and their role in the community is to educate people about proper nutrition.
I think you should stop making this personal. I'm sharing, just as you're sharing. My intentions are good, just as your intentions are good. I'm not trying to con anyone, you're not trying to con anyone. You are defending what you believe, I am defending what I believe.
Keep your insults to yourself please, because you obviously don't have your facts on me straightened out. I ask that this type of personal attacks stop. I feel like I am back in fifth grade!

Sunset:
As I promised, here is the information I was able to find on L-Theanine. On-going research is being conducted on L-Theanine and anxiety, but more information is needed before solid conclusions can be drawn.
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/lth_0296.shtml

Also, I forgot to post the following information on L-Tryptophan. Thought you might find it of interest. It is from the FDA (it covers amino acid supplements in general and then L-Tryptophan). You will see that it is consistent with what the other link said.
"Amino acids are the individual constituent parts of proteins. Consumption of foods containing intact proteins ordinarily provides sufficient amounts of the nine amino acids needed for growth and development in children and for maintenance of health of adults. The safety of amino acids in this form is generally not a concern. When marketed as dietary supplements, amino acids are sold as single compounds, in combinations of two or more amino acids, as components of protein powders, as chelated single compounds, or in chelated mixtures. Amino acids are promoted for a variety of uses, including body-building. Some are promoted for claimed pharmacologic effects.

The Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) recently conducted an exhaustive search of available data on amino acids and concluded that there was insufficient information to establish a safe intake level for any amino acids in dietary supplements, and that their safety should not be assumed. FASEB warned that consuming amino acids in dietary supplement form posed potential risks for several subgroups of the general population, including women of childbearing age (especially if pregnant or nursing), infants, children, adolescents, the elderly, individuals with inherited disorders of amino acid metabolism, and individuals with certain diseases.

At least two of the amino acids consumed in dietary supplements have also been associated with serious injuries in healthy adults.

A. L-tryptophan

L-tryptophan is associated with the most serious recent outbreak of illness and death known to be due to consumption of dietary supplements. In 1989, public health officials realized that an epidemic of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS) was associated with the ingestion of L-tryptophan in a dietary supplement. EMS is a systemic connective tissue disease characterized by severe muscle pain, an increase in white blood cells, and certain skin and neuromuscular manifestations.

More than 1,500 cases of L-tryptophan-related EMS have been reported to the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At least 38 patients are known to have died. The true incidence of L-tryptophan-related EMS is thought to be much higher. Some of the individuals suffering from L-tryptophan-related EMS have recovered, while other individuals' illnesses have persisted or worsened over time.

Although initial epidemiologic studies suggested that the illnesses might be due to impurities in an L-tryptophan product from a single Japanese manufacturer, this hypothesis has not been verified, and additional evidence suggests that L-tryptophan itself may cause or contribute to development of EMS. Cases of EMS and related disorders have been found to be associated with ingestion of L-tryptophan from other batches or sources of L-tryptophan. These illnesses have also been associated with the use of L-5-hydroxytryptophan, a compound that is closely related to L-tryptophan, but is not produced using the manufacturing process that created the impurities in the particular Japanese product."
(from: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-ill.html )

Here is some more information about GABA that backs up what SuzanneMarie shared and the previous article I posted.
"GABA Supplements?
Before you go out and buy up all kinds of dietary supplements with GABA, a word of caution from Leventhal: 'GABA itself does not pass through the blood brain barrier, so eating it will be of little value. Drugs that increase GABA inhibition are potentially usefull.' " ( http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_...975&language=english ). Leventhal is a professor of neurobiology and anatomy and adjunct professor of physiology at the University of Utah School of Medicine. The article is about the aging brain. It's pretty interesting.