Hi I am Vickie and I started the program in September. I am the triple A personality and what can be done in 16 weeks I can do in 4 because I wanted to be well so badly. Actually I did do well and was even weaning myself slowly off of Ativan. Then wam! Last week the panic came back with a vengence. I am slowly crawling out of it but I have lost a lot of ground physically.
I typically wake in the middle of the night with heart pounding, sick stomach stuff. During the day I seem to be fine.But when I lose sleep (most of the nights this week) I lose my appetite and feel pretty bad and anxious. I have even developed anticipatory anxiety over going to bed.
I am thankful for what the program has taught me so far. Teaching my brain that I really am ok, it is just a feeling, it is not real.What is alarming though is I can have an ongoing panic episode all night long.
When I hear most attacks last minutes to a half hour I only wish. Does any one struggle with this? And what do you do?
I am pretty discouraged right now. I want to be better yesterday. This does not feel good.

Vickie,

True recovery doesn't mean NOT getting a panic attack but rather the opposite!!

The point of this program is go have skills and use them to stop a full blown attack, however, we are told to "feel the fear and do it anyways". That also means that when an attack happens (no matter what level of panic you are having) to just STAY PUT and feel the fear.

This is TRULY a success since you need to feel those feelings to actually work through them. Having a panic attack is SUCCESS!! The more you experience panic and live through it.....the more you will build tolerance to those feelings and be able to overcome them.

Do you understand my point? Don't be so hard on yourself either. It's great if you can go without a panic attack but that's NOT the main goal. The main goal is to stop fearing the feelings of panic and to build tolerance to them. You can only do that when you have the high anxiety.

That's why they talk about growth-spurts.
You are supposed to learn something each time you have an attack.

Don't fight your panic....let it come and accept the feelings. Use positive talk to stop it from progressing to a full blown panic attack and then keep feeling the fear.
You will slowly build tolerance and YOU WILL OVERCOME THIS!!

If I'm not mistaken the type of panic attack you are describing I have heard called a "Sustained Panic Attack." This is what I experienced also. It was very difficult for me to convince myself that I was having these things that people called panic attacks because mine would last hours or days even. When I first began having them I was prescribed Doxepin (anti-depressant) and Ativan. I continued to have daily uneasiness and I cried at the drop of a hat, I was always nauseated and I lost a lot of weight in a matter of weeks. My psychiatrist added Klonopin to my mix. I only took it for three days but it seemed to do the trick and allowed me to break free from the constant anxiety I was feeling at that time. As I look back I sometimes believe that it was more of an "I gave in to it" type of thing, if that makes sense. I was seemingly immediately better and was able to stop taking all meds but I continue to take the AD. I went two years with no sign of anxiety at all. Then I had a few bad days and it all came flowing back to me. I then purchased the program and ever since I have been able to stop the body symptoms from developing into actual attacks.

Over the past year I can count the number of anxious days and that number is three. So I am very pleased with that. Whenever I had one of those days I would phone my mother who would reinforce the facts "You know that you may have an anxious day and that is OK. You know that you have recovered from these in the past. You know they do not last forever. You know that you will be alright. You know that you are not weak if you need to take an Ativan to get you through an episode, etc." I guess these are the important things to keep in mind when you are having an episode.

Stick with it. Keep in mind that the whirlwind of the holidays is past us and it is common for people to experience anxiety around the holidays (even if it affects us a few weeks later.)

shawn.

I had the same type attacks, which when they say..they will pass, they always do..I would think.."WHEN??!!!" I read about them and they are called panic clusters. During these attacks when we are less in control, I have read that a few doses of xanax/ativan/valium may be necessary to at least throw a monkey wrench into the situation.

I had gone them alone for two years and during a bad time in April..I did take one pill and slept for hours. But it did start coming down after that.

I think it is less likely that these types of clusters would attack as you progress in the program, not to say that is always the case.

I know in my experience with the disorder, many times it wasn't a full blown attack that made me feel the worse, it was that lingering high anxiety that seemed to get within an inch of a panic attack..but them just hung there. It is like literally hanging off a cliff..you can't climb up and save yourself and you don't seem to be able to just fall and get to over with..lol. It could last for over a week. I think when you are in this state, it can be extremely difficult to grasp anything, even the great skills in the program.

As I have longer periods of calm now, I truly believe that these types of attacks are at bay. I think they are just oversensitized nerves having a big bash at our expense. We pile on and pile on all the negative thoughts, obsessions, worries, what ifs and it is like the nerves go on red alert and just take over body and mind.

The best defense is sticking with it and eventually you come to the place where your nerves don't have that much ammo. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by SMears:
Vickie,

True recovery doesn't mean NOT getting a panic attack but rather the opposite!!

The point of this program is go have skills and use them to stop a full blown attack, however, we are told to "feel the fear and do it anyways". That also means that when an attack happens (no matter what level of panic you are having) to just STAY PUT and feel the fear.

This is TRULY a success since you need to feel those feelings to actually work through them. Having a panic attack is SUCCESS!! The more you experience panic and live through it.....the more you will build tolerance to those feelings and be able to overcome them.

Do you understand my point? Don't be so hard on yourself either. It's great if you can go without a panic attack but that's NOT the main goal. The main goal is to stop fearing the feelings of panic and to build tolerance to them. You can only do that when you have the high anxiety.

That's why they talk about growth-spurts.
You are supposed to learn something each time you have an attack.

Don't fight your panic....let it come and accept the feelings. Use positive talk to stop it from progressing to a full blown panic attack and then keep feeling the fear.
You will slowly build tolerance and YOU WILL OVERCOME THIS!!

SMears,
Thank you for you support.I don't know how I will ever accept the feeling of "oh here it comes again!", but it helps to have people available to cheer me on.

quote:

Originally posted by briggslady:
If I'm not mistaken the type of panic attack you are describing I have heard called a "Sustained Panic Attack." This is what I experienced also. It was very difficult for me to convince myself that I was having these things that people called panic attacks because mine would last hours or days even. When I first began having them I was prescribed Doxepin (anti-depressant) and Ativan. I continued to have daily uneasiness and I cried at the drop of a hat, I was always nauseated and I lost a lot of weight in a matter of weeks. My psychiatrist added Klonopin to my mix. I only took it for three days but it seemed to do the trick and allowed me to break free from the constant anxiety I was feeling at that time. As I look back I sometimes believe that it was more of an "I gave in to it" type of thing, if that makes sense. I was seemingly immediately better and was able to stop taking all meds but I continue to take the AD. I went two years with no sign of anxiety at all. Then I had a few bad days and it all came flowing back to me. I then purchased the program and ever since I have been able to stop the body symptoms from developing into actual attacks.

Over the past year I can count the number of anxious days and that number is three. So I am very pleased with that. Whenever I had one of those days I would phone my mother who would reinforce the facts "You know that you may have an anxious day and that is OK. You know that you have recovered from these in the past. You know they do not last forever. You know that you will be alright. You know that you are not weak if you need to take an Ativan to get you through an episode, etc." I guess these are the important things to keep in mind when you are having an episode.

Stick with it. Keep in mind that the whirlwind of the holidays is past us and it is common for people to experience anxiety around the holidays (even if it affects us a few weeks later.)

shawn.

Thank you very much! I was truly wondering if I was an exeption to the rule. Interestingly enough my DR wants me to stay on the Ativan for a bit longer and also prescribed Klonapin, tiny bits at a time as I am super sensative to meds. Your encouragement will go a long ways!
Vickie

Seven years ago I listened to these tapes and I was able to stop panic attacks from coming. But as time went on I was still anxious and had many different body symptoms. I started the program a year ago last fall. THis time I took my time. I am learning how to change those things about me that cause anxiety. For instance, the perfectionism, the impatience, the high expectations, the un-assertiveness, etc. My point is that we all want to get better yesterday but we need to take the time to work on many things about ourselves and that you cannot do in a few weeks. I encourage you to slow down. THat AA personality is what has gotten you here. You will feel better eventually. My panic attacks would last a few hours and then I was totally exhausted. I didn't take meds. Too afraid of them. But the good news is I havent' had a panic attack in a long time. I've come close a few times but with the skills of the program I was able to stick thru it. Still felt yucky for a while but I didn't 'have' to go to bed from it. I have good days and some not so good days. I allow myself that. Allow yourself time to learn new ways of dealing with everything. It takes time. Best wishes, Reena

quote:

Originally posted by MaggieMay:
I had the same type attacks, which when they say..they will pass, they always do..I would think.."WHEN??!!!" I read about them and they are called panic clusters. During these attacks when we are less in control, I have read that a few doses of xanax/ativan/valium may be necessary to at least throw a monkey wrench into the situation.

I had gone them alone for two years and during a bad time in April..I did take one pill and slept for hours. But it did start coming down after that.

I think it is less likely that these types of clusters would attack as you progress in the program, not to say that is always the case.

I know in my experience with the disorder, many times it wasn't a full blown attack that made me feel the worse, it was that lingering high anxiety that seemed to get within an inch of a panic attack..but them just hung there. It is like literally hanging off a cliff..you can't climb up and save yourself and you don't seem to be able to just fall and get to over with..lol. It could last for over a week. I think when you are in this state, it can be extremely difficult to grasp anything, even the great skills in the program.

As I have longer periods of calm now, I truly believe that these types of attacks are at bay. I think they are just oversensitized nerves having a big bash at our expense. We pile on and pile on all the negative thoughts, obsessions, worries, what ifs and it is like the nerves go on red alert and just take over body and mind.

The best defense is sticking with it and eventually you come to the place where your nerves don't have that much ammo. Good luck.

I would love to disengage my nervous system right now and give my body a vacation. I did not feel the anxiety today, but rather a low depression. I am not sure, but I think this feels a little better, I am not a depressed person and know this will pass. Thank you for you support!
Vickie

quote:

Originally posted by Reena:
Seven years ago I listened to these tapes and I was able to stop panic attacks from coming. But as time went on I was still anxious and had many different body symptoms. I started the program a year ago last fall. THis time I took my time. I am learning how to change those things about me that cause anxiety. For instance, the perfectionism, the impatience, the high expectations, the un-assertiveness, etc. My point is that we all want to get better yesterday but we need to take the time to work on many things about ourselves and that you cannot do in a few weeks. I encourage you to slow down. THat AA personality is what has gotten you here. You will feel better eventually. My panic attacks would last a few hours and then I was totally exhausted. I didn't take meds. Too afraid of them. But the good news is I havent' had a panic attack in a long time. I've come close a few times but with the skills of the program I was able to stick thru it. Still felt yucky for a while but I didn't 'have' to go to bed from it. I have good days and some not so good days. I allow myself that. Allow yourself time to learn new ways of dealing with everything. It takes time. Best wishes, Reena

Thank you Reena for your encouragement. I am afraid of the meds too, but I am more afraid of the panic.

It is nice to know people do get well, eventually.
Vickie

Hi Vickie,
I didn't read through everybody's posts here until the end, though i read quite a few....Maggie said what i would have.
The thing though, that struck me immediately when i was reading what you wrote...has not been addressed here: You said that it was WHEN you were weaning yourself off the Ativan, that BAM!...the panic came back with a vengeance! When i read that, i thought...yes, of course, that is ativan withdrawal. If you've been taking THIS type of medication (as i used to take valium many,many years ago...another anti-anxiety drug)....then when it's taken away, you are bound to feel the anxiety/panic again. These med's are not like anti-depressants.
So, that may be what's been happening. I went through valium withdrawal (an 8 yr. addiction to that drug) in 1980. I won't describe what that was like. And several years later, i had panic ALL THE TIME...i supposed that would be termed 'cluster panic'. (never heard that term before) It was as if i had no coating over my entire nervous system! So, i am definately one who knows what it's like to have no relief from panic for very long periods of time. And thank God...that was very long ago.
If you decide to get off the Ativan, perhaps you can temporarily take an antidepressant (or sometimes another type of drug is used) in order to ease the withdrawal symptoms.
If you ever need support, an ear, someone who has gone through prescription drug withdrawal BIG TIME, please feel free to email me. I wish i had had somebody (anybody!) when i was going through that, who had some idea of what i was experiencing! When i recovered some time later....i returned to the Donwood Institute (where i lived while i was going through the withdrawal) and worked there, part time, helping those who were going through the same.
Perhaps i am way off track here, but wanted to include 'this take' on your post, just in case it helps at all.
God bless and talk with you soon,
((((((((BIG HUGS))))))))) Lindi

Been there! Done that!

And I bet just about everyone who purchased the program has, also.

Remember---that's part of our personality and, who wouldn't want to get better.

I did just like you and was out and about and thrilled...and listened to every tape and quit doing the work book and WHAM. I wasn't listening to my body sending me signals and kept going until I panicked.

Anyway, a year later and sooooo much better, going places, finally went to the dentist after five years, had a crown put on. Traveled, planning a trip without worry....work out @ the YMCA every day, where last year when I toured the place to join I panicked.

You have to do what is suggested.....you paid $400. now get your money's worth .

------------------
Don't take anything personally.
Always be impecable with your word.
Don't assume anything.
Always do your best!

quote:

Originally posted by SMears:
Vickie,

True recovery doesn't mean NOT getting a panic attack but rather the opposite!!

The point of this program is go have skills and use them to stop a full blown attack, however, we are told to "feel the fear and do it anyways". That also means that when an attack happens (no matter what level of panic you are having) to just STAY PUT and feel the fear.

This is TRULY a success since you need to feel those feelings to actually work through them. Having a panic attack is SUCCESS!! The more you experience panic and live through it.....the more you will build tolerance to those feelings and be able to overcome them.

Do you understand my point? Don't be so hard on yourself either. It's great if you can go without a panic attack but that's NOT the main goal. The main goal is to stop fearing the feelings of panic and to build tolerance to them. You can only do that when you have the high anxiety.

That's why they talk about growth-spurts.
You are supposed to learn something each time you have an attack.

Don't fight your panic....let it come and accept the feelings. Use positive talk to stop it from progressing to a full blown panic attack and then keep feeling the fear.
You will slowly build tolerance and YOU WILL OVERCOME THIS!!

Smears, I am new to the forum and i liked your response about not getting another panic attack but rather getting thru them. I think i need help with identifying why i am getting the attacks. They seem to come when I am excited about things. like when i was telling a coworker about a fully experience at one of my work stops, i started with the heart racing and the dizziness. or when i was telling a friend about how great my daughter ws doing at college and how proud ofher i was, i started with the dizziness, or when i was in the movie theatre with my boyfriend and all of asudden the dizziness and the heart race started. or when i was driving to work and was listening to lucindsa 10 positive statements and i was so excited about how good i was doing. I am on week 10 by the way)I had an attack while driving and i was scared to death. my legs were like jello, my heart was racing, i was so dizzy i didn't think i was going to make it to work. Then I started thinkin the program wasn't working and i didn't know what went wrong when I was doing so well for so long. Now I am kind of afraid to go anywhere because the attacks will kkeep coming and i'm not sure why? Does anyone else get these symptom when they are excited? Should i start the program over?
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
thanks. flowergirl

Flower girl,
I am doing the program again. You need time to learn new habits and also to work thru these attacks and not be afraid of them. You made it to work. When you first start to get a symptom is the time to do the breathing and self talk. You have learned a lot. There are ups and downs. Keep going places. Take your time. Recovery is a roller coaster. You will feel better soon. Start with that positive talk- not the negative! Reena

quote:

Originally posted by Reena:
Flower girl,
I am doing the program again. You need time to learn new habits and also to work thru these attacks and not be afraid of them. You made it to work. When you first start to get a symptom is the time to do the breathing and self talk. You have learned a lot. There are ups and downs. Keep going places. Take your time. Recovery is a roller coaster. You will feel better soon. Start with that positive talk- not the negative! Reena

Reena, thanks for the support. I think part of my problem is that I am angry that this anxiety is even happening to me. I have been thru so much in my life and seemed to handle it very well. So i am angry that all of a sudden i'm having these attacks. So when the attack starts I am afraid and angry and that makes it difficult for self-talk. I do go to work, I am a supervisor, i have people counting on me. I do go to social events llike i always have. But I seem to be having panic attacks whnever i have to do the simpleist of things and that is not what i was like before. It feels like someone else is in my body at times and I just want to feel calm again. sometimes my mind runs 24/7
and tons of negative thoughts pile up. Its hard to turn it off. Sometimes when i'm not having a panic attack i'm thinking oh my god i'm feeling good and not having an attack. so when is it going to come, and the good moment is ruined and my mind starts worrying
why am i feeling good. this is the stupidest thing. I feel like i just want to scream out what the hell is wrong with you, be glad you're not having an attack and enjoy the precious moment. my boyfriend is taking me on vacation this friday for a week and i so want to enjoy every moment and i dont want any attacks interfering with our time. i see i have been worrying about that
for quite some time now. and that is not being in the precious moment . i see this but am having a hard time staying in the moment. thats about it for now. if i have been rambling on thanks for listening.
flowergirl.

Hi again Flowergirl,
I was wondering if you have the program? It is very helpful in working thru all this anxiety. I have felt everything you said. It is soo hard to change your thinking in the midst of a panic attack and it doesn't always make those feeling disappear right away either. I just encourage you to keep working on this but it helps to have direction. The program gave me a week by week way of working thru this. I am going thru it again and again until it sinks in. I'm going to be more stubborn that this stupid anxiety. It has far too strong a hold on people and it is nothing but negative thinking, overreacting, worrying about self, etc. You can get thru this. Hugs, Reena