Hi everyone! I haven't posted anything in weeks and now it feels like it might help. Up until last week, i felt satisfied with my little bits of progress. Just to remind you, i've had panic attacks and especiall 'fear OF them' for half my life....a long time. When i began applying this program, my world was about 4 or 5 blocks in any direction. So, when on my own, i've been practicing going a block further, always using the 6 steps and controlling the symptoms to some degree...not allowing it to reach 'panic' level. I agree with Carolyn when she says "distance is not a factor. It doesn't matter WHERE you are or how far from your 'perceived safety' you are...the thing is HOW you deal with the symptoms." I agree, because i KNOW that there IS no 'safe place' or 'safe person', that only I can provide this safety for myself. And yet, (yesterday was an example) when i am planning to go a further distance, even with a friend, i seem to be unable to put these 6 steps into practice. I am not willing to walk into what i STILL believe to be very threatening. No matter what i KNOW, somehow i resist the idea of 'working my way through an attack' if it happens far from home. I'm STILL at that point and to be honest, i am feeling upset about this. I was so hoping that i would be MUCH further ahead, as my goal is to get to Montreal for my mother's 80th birthday in September. (with a friend driving me there and staying with me wherever i need to go while in Montreal) I want this CHANGE to happen. As it is, i am so far from getting myself around THIS city....how can i keep this goal of Montreal! Again, i KNOW distance should not be a factor and yet something deep inside of me cannot seem to BELIEVE this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks and have a wonderful day!!! Lindi

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Linda

Hi Linda!
Oh Boy, can I relate to you!!!!!!!lol.I have this problem too, but I'm dealing with it.
I live on a very, very, long street and it has been a goal of mine to walk to the corner by myself.It's something I need to prove to myself that I can do.It's probably about a mile walk to the corner and back.
The one day I just decided that I was going to do it no matter what!! I left the house feeling very, very, nervous and uptight and didn't think I could do it at all. But this is what I told myself,I know i'm going to have symptoms, but i want to keep going,it just doesn't matter if I don't make it to the corner this time,I'll keep pushing til I reach my goal.I know I can do this.What also helps is to remind yourself that you always have options.This what REALLY helps me! I told myself I could turn around anytime I wanted too. The option was always there for me IF I decided to.I didn't want to! Would you believe I DID IT???LOL.I was ssssooo
proud of myself!!!It really felt good to get out there and stretch my legs and enjoy the scenery.Yes, I had the symptoms but they went away, ( they always do) I just kept thinking about how proud I'd feel.Iwas proud and felt very much in control.The following day I decided I was going to do it again!!!
Guess what ?I DID IT!!! I did it yesterday,too!! WOO-HOO!!!Havent done YET today though.
Lindi, I could be wrong here, but I think you might be too focused on outcome rather than effort.That's not what it's all about.It just doesn't matter how far you go, it's about the effort you put into it.It sounds to me like you're on the right track here.Why aren't you giving yourself the credit you deserve for the effort you made thus far?Don't be so hard on yourself.You know in your heart eventually you will make it .Just keep on going, girlfriend!!! I have faith in you,I believe you can reach your goal.I made it to mine!!!You can do it too!! GO LINDI, GO LINDI, GO LINDI!! I'll be your little cheerleader here!!!LOL.
Take care,
SKY

Dear Sky, What an absolutely WONDERFUL letter you wrote to me!! My little cheerleader! It was so affectionate and loving and i smiled all the way through it. I haven't really known if there are others on this Forum who are having difficulty walking far from home. So, i'm very glad i posted this. It hadn't occured to me that i can tell myself that i dont HAVE to make it to Montreal in September....to focus only on NOW, and either i'll be able to get there or i won't! Because my sister (who is going for my mom's 80th) is coming from California and everyone is expecting and hoping i'll get there....i suppose i've dreaded the idea of having to say i can't. I've practically told them all that i will because i believed i just might be recovered by then! It sure doesn't feel possible at this point however. So, maybe i need to drop this goal?? Sky, i will look at your reply again, here and there, cause it's just so terrific (girlfriend!)...And i say back to you: "GO SKY GO!!!" love....Lindi

Hi Lindi, it's been a while since we've chatted. Well, I can relate to you and I agree with sky. It's the process, not the destination that should be the focus. I had a small world too. I would be on a treadmill, going absolutely NOWHERE, and I'd have panic attacks! LOL. When I would go for a walk, I knew I would get symtoms, and this is KEY... I learned to set my expectations of myself LOW! I learned to EXPECT to feel yucky! And when you know what to expect, the FEAR goes. And when the fear goes, so do the symptoms! So, when the symptoms would start up I would try my "backup plans". Plan A: Divert my attention to something else. I'd look at the trees, notice the scenery, smell the air, really look at the color and make comments in my head about them "my what a lovely sky, bird, tree, etc." Plan B: Okay, still feeling spacey, so DEEP BREATHS and I say "you're okay, you're fine, you're okay, you're okay, you know what this is, it's just a little anxiety, no big deal." Plan C: I'm still feeling a little faint and my legs feel like they're going to buckle, so I slow down my pace or stop for a minute and REGROUP! Plan D: If none of this is working, this is when I really get into talking to myself. "Okay, so if I fall over right now, what's the worst that could happen? I could hurt myself, so I'll aim for the grass! Or, I'll just sit down right here." And when the symptoms get unbearable and I'm on the VERGE of panic and ready to high-tail it home, that's when I say "If you're going to have a panic attack, GO AHEAD and HAVE ONE ALREADY! It's not going to HURT YOU! It's HARMLESS really. And it is always at that very MOMENT, when I'm on that VERGE, the feeling DISAPPEARS!

Don't think about Montreal right now. But when the time comes, GO! And if you have 5 panic attacks along the way SO WHAT!! The EFFORT is the SUCCESS! CONGRATULATE yourself for making the EFFORT! Give yourself a BIG pat on the back! That's all that REALLY matters anyway! It's the JOURNEY not the destination that leads to recovery! I don't focus on whether or not I had a panic attack, that's not the goal. It's not about NOT having a panic attack and feeling like the attempt was a failure if you did, because IT'S NOT! It was a SUCCESS because you ATTEMPTED it in the first place, DESPITE the FEAR! You can do it! Much love, JBean

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-25-2001).]

Hi Lindi!
I am so glad you liked my response to you.
It really was straight from the heart.
I wouldn't sugggest not going to see you mom for her b-day. Maybe instead of saying , I HAVE to go to Montreal to see mom,you can say you WANT to go?You know, Sept. is a long ways off yet.You can do A LOT of work on yourself between now and then.Maybe going to Montreal would be something you can do for YOU. Turn it into a GOAL for YOURSELF.Imagine how proud you'll feel. Ask yourself this , how would you feel if you did it?You'd feel incredible!!!! I know how I felt just making it to the corner!!lol.
Keep up the good work and never, ever, ever,
GIVE UP.Recovery is possible for me AND you.
Your cheerleader.
SKY

Hi Sky, my own private cheerleader!!!! Wow...between you and JBean, i received SO much caring input and encouragement....i feel like a six-year old kid, receiving this kind of help. It is SO wonderful! We should ALL be inspirational speakers....actually i AM that, with other things, just not with THIS!!Not lately, that is. Alright, i'm back to focusing on Effort, not Outcome. I neglected to tell you how GREAT IT IS that you made it along that LONG, LONG block....I'm rooting for you too!!! It reminded me of several years ago, when i had just begun to move around outside of my apartment (after being housebound for 1 year) and eventually i got to the corner (a short block) and to my left was this VERY LONG block, which had a tall, brick wall all the way down it. I tried walking along that walled block for months! The man i was living with (for 13 yrs.) would ask, "so, did you do the wall today?" It became a kind of running joke with us....at times i've been able to really laugh at my situation. So your long block reminded me of 'the wall'. A few statements you made in your second post to me were interesting...1)about my WANTING to go to Montreal. And i really do have to ask myself: DO i really want to go? And that's too long a story. I'll just say that there are several reasons why i really DON'T want to go! And this has to do with all the people i would be spending time with. And the reason to go would be to be ABLE to see my parents...it's been years, and to see a very close friend. And to SUCCEED of course! I've lived in such a tiny world for TOO LONG, and being anywhere else feels like culture shock!But i will focus on the present days right now. 2)Well, it's really the same issue: telling myself "This is for ME". Again, is this what i WANT. I'll have to think on this. 3) So, the question of "how would i feel if i did it?" .... I honestly don't know, because of the implications of what occurs when i see many of my family. But i'm SURE that if i feel READY to deal with even a bit of that and i can do this trip, i would feel pretty great. Sky, thank you, thank you, thank you!!! **I'm going to reply to JBean now, if you have the energy or time, you'll see what it is i have a hard time dealing with during those oncoming attacks.Okay girlfriend....i love that expression!!! Lindi

Hi JBean, Well!That was quite a reply!! And SO much appreciated! You know, it's funny...i was so focused on the 'journey'...the 'process', before the idea of this possible trip to Montreal in September. For various reasons besides that, during this past week i seem to have stopped trying as hard as i was before. That's why i posted this. And so far, the two of you are providing such great inspiration for me, i can't tell you just how grateful i am. JBean, i laughed aloud when you described being on that treadmill, GOING NOWHERE, and having panic! It's amazing how funny some of this can sound!!! And your comment about "aiming for the grass"....also laughed aloud.( a fine line between comedy and tragedy ) When you were describing alternative ways in which you deal with oncoming panic symptoms, one of the things you mentioned was STOPPING, or SITTING DOWN. These are the VERY THINGS i feel unable to do (unwilling perhaps). So far, i cannot STOP and just stand (or sit) there WHILE panic is very high. It still feels like too much to ask of myself! Everything you said makes sense and in reading it all over a second time, i can see an UNDERLYING problem i'm having and have always had, with this condition. Let's see if i can explain it. A few things you said make this clear to me: "expect to feel the symptoms which can lead to panic" (not exactly your words, but same idea) "so what if i fall over,etc."if the symptoms are unbearable......" and, "go ahead and have the attack". All these sentences infer that i can ACCEPT going through this YET AGAIN!! That i am willing to keep experiencing full-blown panic, if it happens.And i realize (not for the first time) that i had reached a point, years ago...where going through one more panic attack felt so nauseating to me, i just couldn't do it anymore! This is not a lack of courage...as i tried SO many avenues to recovery throughout the years. Now i have tools which i BELIEVE can work, and yet i also have 30 years of memory which DREADS having to BE IN THAT STATE, again and again. Something inside of me has to change, so that i truly BELIEVE and FEEL (not just as a concept in my head) that i can DEAL WITH IT. Walking into these things WILLINGLY is SO, SO hard for me. When i read about STANDING STILL or STOPPING, and TIMING THE ATTACK WITH THE USE OF A WATCH, in order to contain it and watch it pass, at this point i can't seem to just stand there and do this!! It's agony for me. And, i should mention, that WHEN i am working with the symptoms, i really DO NOT use dramatic words like 'agony'...i use only soft, loving, soothing self-talk and i keep my body as 'limp' as possible. But i'm telling you how it FEELS. Perhaps dealing with this for so long has made this work alot harder, i don't know. HOWEVER, i have written out everything you wrote and everything Sky wrote and shall read this several times a day. Something deep within me HAS to change at some point! It's almost embarrassing for me to realize what i have just now written....that i am not willing to have panic attacks over and over again, which is the ONLY way to recover! I WILL NOT STOP TRYING...i have overcome and grown through many, many things in my life. This one will finally set me free. You said "It's not about NOT having a panic attack". Believe it or not, when i'm out there...walking further...and i'm JUST FINE, i CAUSE myself to have fear by saying something like "oh, nothing's happening, shouldn't i be panicking by now? And from this, i create fear. i won't leave it alone! And i think if i walk TOO far away, what if it comes THEN, what will i do,etc..." So, what the lesson is here, of course, is to stop AVOIDING having these attacks. Oboy...I'm strong with so much else in my life, and this..............I hope i can report, soon, that i am willing to walk into panic, DESPITE THE FEAR. I hope you forgive me for this incredibly LONG reply. I have not written about the DETAILS of panic before and i'm hoping that doing so - can help me. I thank you again, with all my heart. Lindi

quote:

Originally posted by Lindi:
Hi JBean, Well!That was quite a reply!! And SO much appreciated! You know, it's funny...i was so focused on the 'journey'...the 'process', before the idea of this possible trip to Montreal in September. For various reasons besides that, during this past week i seem to have stopped trying as hard as i was before. That's why i posted this. And so far, the two of you are providing such great inspiration for me, i can't tell you just how grateful i am. JBean, i laughed aloud when you described being on that treadmill, GOING NOWHERE, and having panic! It's amazing how funny some of this can sound!!! And your comment about "aiming for the grass"....also laughed aloud.( a fine line between comedy and tragedy ) When you were describing alternative ways in which you deal with oncoming panic symptoms, one of the things you mentioned was STOPPING, or SITTING DOWN. These are the VERY THINGS i feel unable to do (unwilling perhaps). So far, i cannot STOP and just stand (or sit) there WHILE panic is very high. It still feels like too much to ask of myself! Everything you said makes sense and in reading it all over a second time, i can see an UNDERLYING problem i'm having and have always had, with this condition. Let's see if i can explain it. A few things you said make this clear to me: "expect to feel the symptoms which can lead to panic" (not exactly your words, but same idea) "so what if i fall over,etc."if the symptoms are unbearable......" and, "go ahead and have the attack". All these sentences infer that i can ACCEPT going through this YET AGAIN!! That i am willing to keep experiencing full-blown panic, if it happens.And i realize (not for the first time) that i had reached a point, years ago...where going through one more panic attack felt so nauseating to me, i just couldn't do it anymore! This is not a lack of courage...as i tried SO many avenues to recovery throughout the years. Now i have tools which i BELIEVE can work, and yet i also have 30 years of memory which DREADS having to BE IN THAT STATE, again and again. Something inside of me has to change, so that i truly BELIEVE and FEEL (not just as a concept in my head) that i can DEAL WITH IT. Walking into these things WILLINGLY is SO, SO hard for me. When i read about STANDING STILL or STOPPING, and TIMING THE ATTACK WITH THE USE OF A WATCH, in order to contain it and watch it pass, at this point i can't seem to just stand there and do this!! It's agony for me. And, i should mention, that WHEN i am working with the symptoms, i really DO NOT use dramatic words like 'agony'...i use only soft, loving, soothing self-talk and i keep my body as 'limp' as possible. But i'm telling you how it FEELS. Perhaps dealing with this for so long has made this work alot harder, i don't know. HOWEVER, i have written out everything you wrote and everything Sky wrote and shall read this several times a day. Something deep within me HAS to change at some point! It's almost embarrassing for me to realize what i have just now written....that i am not willing to have panic attacks over and over again, which is the ONLY way to recover! I WILL NOT STOP TRYING...i have overcome and grown through many, many things in my life. This one will finally set me free. You said "It's not about NOT having a panic attack". Believe it or not, when i'm out there...walking further...and i'm JUST FINE, i CAUSE myself to have fear by saying something like "oh, nothing's happening, shouldn't i be panicking by now? And from this, i create fear. i won't leave it alone! And i think if i walk TOO far away, what if it comes THEN, what will i do,etc..." So, what the lesson is here, of course, is to stop AVOIDING having these attacks. Oboy...I'm strong with so much else in my life, and this..............I hope i can report, soon, that i am willing to walk into panic, DESPITE THE FEAR. I hope you forgive me for this incredibly LONG reply. I have not written about the DETAILS of panic before and i'm hoping that doing so - can help me. I thank you again, with all my heart. Lindi

Hi Lindi. Thank you so much for your reply to my other post! You know, you're like my own on-line therapist! And made me feel so much better! Thank you! You are SO right and I'm going to trust myself and continue on my path! Well, who wants to go through a panic attack, because let's face it... they SUCK! They're nasty, scary, uncomfortable things! But that's because we fear them so much. But I have found that the only way to stop it was to lose my fear, and I replaced that with acceptance. When you do that, the symptoms become less intense and eventually subside. It's not easy and it takes time. I loved your reply above. I think if we ever met we'd probably talk non-stop for 6 hours straiht! LOL! Anyway, I'm glad you found what I had to say helpful, and that I made ya laugh. Cause that was my intention. You just have to see the comedy in this suffering! You know, I do the same thing sometimes... if I DON'T feel the symptoms, sometimes I will start saying, well why aren't you feeling weird right now? You should be thinking of something scary. And then of coure, my old scary thought would come up and then the anxiety would start. WHY did I do that ON PURPOSE? Well, I think for me it's because I still have a need to test myself, to practice, and the negative talk isn't totally gone yet. But through all this practice, my REACTIONS are much LESS intense! I don't get so scared anymore and the symptoms are much less. So I think it's natural and a good thing. It's funny you mentioned that we should be public speakers, because I was an excellent presenter at my company for many years. When I had panic attacks at work, I had NO CHOICE but to float through them, because I was having them at every meeting when I was standing up giving a presentation to a room full of people! There was NO where to run! I had NO CHOICE but to go through it to the other side. Talk about UNPLEASANT! I would think to myself, well... if I faint right now, they'll just have to bring a stretcher in and wisk me off the hospital! I'd wake up and see my boss's face staring down at me! What a picture! Of course, that never happened, but here's the kicker... no one even KNEW I had a panic attack! I thought for sure they would notice, but they never did. I think the key to my recovery (and I am SOOO much better), is that I put myself into uncomfortable situations ON PURPOSE! I just have to keep practicing. I don't WANT to do it, I don't feel good when I do it sometimes, but you know what? It's okay! Sometimes I would just focus on a situation as a psychological practice. I would be feeling very panicky, but I wouldn't dwell on that. I'd try to stay in the moment as long as I could, let my body do it's thing and say, well that was a good exercise as crappy as I felt. Situations that used to cause me great anxiety don't anymore, I can present again and I can do alot of things I couldn't before. Sometimes I'd have a panic attack, sometimes I wouldn't, but I ALWAYS felt good AFTER the attempt, even if it wasn't very long or I didn't go a far as I thought! Small steps Lindi, all the time. That's the key. Don't EVER feel disappointed if you feel like crap! Expect to feel that way for a while. You can't force it. Pat yourself on the back, give yourself lots of love afterwards and just tell yourself that it was good practice, tomorrow is another day and every day it will get a little better. The changes are sooo small and hardly noticable sometimes, but they're cumumlative, and one day you WILL see them! Well, I've written a book here! You keep me posted on how you're doing! And keep at it! Much love, JBean



[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-27-2001).]

Hi JBean, At the close of your last reply, you said your writing was like 'a book'...so long and all. Well, you can write me a book any time!!! This feedback and encouragement on the 'how' of dealing with attacks is SOOOO appreciated! I am glad to hear that some of my own writings have provided you with help and that i've contributed as a sort of 'Online therapist'! I know i can offer much guidance and help in those areas that you're speaking of, and i could certainly use help with working through panic. So, it's a great exchange!! You are ahead of me in the area of recovering from panic (taking over our lives)and i need all the support i can get...so much more 'meaningful' coming from one who has been working at it too! (as opposed to a friend who cares, but has no idea what i am dealing with) Again, i have added your most recent remarks to my list of "JBean on Panic". I shall be reading that list over, daily. I haven't gone for a practice-walk in many days now, which i had promised myself wouldn't happen, as it's so easy to lose ground. Been experiencing some pretty depressing moods and difficult times lately....too lazy and tired to refer to all that right now. Much of that content is on Andrew's posting on Depresssion is Not a Weakness. What i have neglected to say to you J.(i'm assuming that's the initial of your first name)...is how GREAT it is to hear about YOUR improvement!!! Have you been on medication or are you on some now?? Was there a time when you were quite immobile? (please forgive me if you've already told me this...i'm so tired tonight) Okay, i'll leave off here and wish you ALL THE BEST. You are so wonderful for taking the time and it is MORE than appreciated!!!!!! love...Lindi

quote:

Originally posted by Lindi:
Hi JBean, At the close of your last reply, you said your writing was like 'a book'...so long and all. Well, you can write me a book any time!!! This feedback and encouragement on the 'how' of dealing with attacks is SOOOO appreciated! I am glad to hear that some of my own writings have provided you with help and that i've contributed as a sort of 'Online therapist'! I know i can offer much guidance and help in those areas that you're speaking of, and i could certainly use help with working through panic. So, it's a great exchange!! You are ahead of me in the area of recovering from panic (taking over our lives)and i need all the support i can get...so much more 'meaningful' coming from one who has been working at it too! (as opposed to a friend who cares, but has no idea what i am dealing with) Again, i have added your most recent remarks to my list of "JBean on Panic". I shall be reading that list over, daily. I haven't gone for a practice-walk in many days now, which i had promised myself wouldn't happen, as it's so easy to lose ground. Been experiencing some pretty depressing moods and difficult times lately....too lazy and tired to refer to all that right now. Much of that content is on Andrew's posting on Depresssion is Not a Weakness. What i have neglected to say to you J.(i'm assuming that's the initial of your first name)...is how GREAT it is to hear about YOUR improvement!!! Have you been on medication or are you on some now?? Was there a time when you were quite immobile? (please forgive me if you've already told me this...i'm so tired tonight) Okay, i'll leave off here and wish you ALL THE BEST. You are so wonderful for taking the time and it is MORE than appreciated!!!!!! love...Lindi

Hi Lindi. My first name is Janine. JBean is a nickname I've had all my life. "Janine Jellybean" or JBean for short. Anyway, you asked if there was a time that I was immobile. YES there was! Last year. I remember getting up from my couch at home and feeling dizzy. I remember reaching down to grab wrapping paper off the floor and having a panic attack. My first panic attack happened at a stop light while driving, so I only drove about a 2 mile radius, still had attacks even then. Going to work in the city was very hard. Panic on the train, panic in the elevator, panic at my desk, panic in meetings, panic on my treadmill at home, depersonalization when talking with friends, you name it. I took alot of days off I was so sick when I woke up in the morning. I had 2-3 hours of sleep each night for 3 months. Those times were the worst. I was very hesitant to try medication, when I went to see a psychiatrist, he told me I had a 50-50 chance of getting over this without medication and going to therapy alone. So, I decided after much research about meds, to go the non-medication route. He gave me a bottle of Xanax which I asked for because that what was my mom took. I took maybe 5 pills during the last year. I am a little med-phobic. But I always have them with me, would carry them in my pocket at work and I would test myself constantly to see if I could get through a situation without taking one. 90% of the time I just had the panic attack and didn't take one. I guess I'm pretty pig-headed and just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. NOW... was this EASY? NO! Do I wish some days I could be on an antidep. and feel better? OH YES! Where there times I felt I wanted to throw in the towel? DEFINITELY! I'd get depressed too. But I just kept at it, somewhere there was a tiny little voice inside me that kept telling me that I was doing the RIGHT thing, and to keep at it no matter what and it will get better. I read everything I could get my hands on healing panic without drugs. Exercise, vitamins, positive self-talk, going to therapy weekly and religiously to deal with my issues (abusive father, guilt, resentment, mid-life disappointments, etc.), having a place to go to be with others going through the same thing (panic chat rooms) all helped me a great deal! It took a long time Lindi, but little by little I started to notice the improvements. I was very nearly ready to be put on blood pressue med. for the rest of my life at the age of 35, but once I started taking care of myself through this process, for the first time in my life really, it's now normal for the first time in 15 years. That's just a side benefit! I think anyone who feels they need medication should go ahead and take it though. Everyone is different and different things work for different people, I just decided when I was given the 50-50 chance, I was going to try everything first without meds and see how far I could get. And to my amazement, although it took a long time, it's farther than I ever thought I would! When you said earlier that you'd sometimes question yourself why you didn't feel panicky at times when you should, that's real progress Lindi! I know it's been a few days sice you've been for your walk, and it's OKAY to take breaks once in a while, but I just want to give you a gentle loving nudge here to say today could be a good day to go out there just for a bit. Just a short walk and come right back. There were SO many times I didn't want to do things, I was depressed or sad or too darn tired! But I kept telling myself every little bit I do today is going to bring me closer to recovery in the long run, so keep at it. Because it is so TRUE! I found if I slacked off for days at a time, and just stayed at home and laid around, I would feel worse when I finally did go outside. It felt like a step back sometimes. My mantra became and still is "So, I feel sick, panicky, depressed, tired and worn out... okay, but DO IT ANYWAY! The only way out is THROUGH and DURING these feelings. Acknowledge them. It doesn't work if you WAIT to feel better, because I have found I would be waiting forever! Pushing through during when I felt bad helped with my depression and my confidence and the panic! I learned this trough trial and error with the practicing. So, If not today Lindi, it's okay, maybe tomorrow! Much love, JBean

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-28-2001).]

Hi there Janine Jellybean!! I also have a whole bunch of endearing names friends call me. Again, i have to say...your last posting was as 'substantial' and helpful as the others. It's so great that you got hold of this Midwest program 'early on'...sounds like you didn't suffer with this for years, before you obtained the right kind of help. I 'salute' you for having the courage to resist medication. When i first started having these attacks (such a very long time ago!) nobody knew what was happening to me, and my doctor gave me valium....so unfortunately i became addicted to this med. and had to go through a nightmarish withdrawal 8 yrs. later. That's long ago. I feel that i should also (like you) return to my own therapy for a while. However, at this time, i don't have the income to provide for this. I know enough to be a therapist to myself really, but it isn't the same thing as working with someone else. It's also difficult to motivate myself in this way. But with what i DO practice with myself (my own therapeutic methods), with the support and inspiration of this wonderful tool....the Forum, and my own spiritual practice....i'd say i've got everything i need. I appreciate your 'gentle nudge' right now, as i have been feeling such a lack of that 'lifeforce' this last week and want so much to return to my daily disciplines. You sound exactly like me when you say "The only way out is THROUGH". And about ACCEPTANCE, yes...i have known how fundamentally necessary this is: "Acceptance is a pre-condition to change." Can't change anything if we are still fighting it, or running away and avoiding it (whatever it is!) It's amazing, with all that i know to be TRUE, i am still fighting ACCEPTING certain things in my life....like the acceptance that the relationship i am involved in for almost 3 years, just doesn't work....so, let it go!!! I resist. Accepting all the symptoms of panic attacks and willingly walking into them....it will come. For a while, i had that. I was even EXCITED to have these symptoms when i was first practicing, so that i could practice my new tools. Well, that didn't last long but i can probably get that back. It's a process...a journey. WHAT A TRIP!! Oh, by the way Jellybean, along the lines of what (i think) you're referring to when you say i've been like an online therapist....take a look at this Site on the Internet: you should probably just type in:" Robert Burney, inner child work." Or: "Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls"....explains how panic is 'the child' part of us, how she/he never really felt safe,etc.. That is how i have come to understand it, and how i came to see that i needed to begin to give myself (the wounded aspect) all this unconditional love, which i've written about here. Okey Dokey, off into the day! Have a great one. I love your writing! God bless.....Linda Loo (that's 'one' nick name)

Hi Lindaloo! Cute! How are you feeling? How are you doing this week? Thanks for the looong post reply. I'm glad you think I'm helping you. Makes me feel really great! Well, I know I only realized I had panic since last year, but I can tell you that I had an anxiety problem for several years before that. I just covered it up with alchohol. Once I stopped, a flood and I mean a flood of emotions came out. I want to tell you about my very heavy week. When I was about 17, my father got strangly fixated on me in an inappropriate way and made inappropriate advances among other things. Well, this week I finally came out and told my mom (GEEZ, only 19 YEARS later!). I was talking to both of them at the kitchen table and my mom asked about my therapy, and asked if I had a good childhood and that certainly there wasn't any abuse or anything. I just replied, "well I don't want to talk about that." My DAD was TAUNTING me to SAY something, control FREAK that he is to DARE me to open my mouth. He thinks he still has that spell (well, he did for 19 years, but no MORE!), Because the next day, my mom called on the phone, and asked me again (I'm very close with her and she's just the best), and she said whatever I have to say she'd believe me 1,000%. So I told her and we talked for a long time and she was cool (even though I know it was painful for her to hear), and I felt this huge WEIGHT lift off my shoulders. In fact, last night for the first night in over a year and a half I slept for 6 hours straight (really good for me!). She's still going to stay married to the man, and I've never been really close with him since 17 and hardly see him, so it's no biggy to me. But I've kinda made peace with it, and it felt really good to get it out in the open and now she understands why I am the way I am around him. Well, just wanted to share that. I never, ever thought I would tell anybody. I would take it to my grave, or I would wait until my dad was in his grave before I told anybody. You know, I never thought about what he did hardly at all, it wasn't dwelling in my head all the time. But, obviously way back or down deep it must have bothered me some. I don't know what possessed me to finally tell someone. Maybe I just got tired of carrying it around all those years. Like I said, it was a pretty heavy emotional week, but I somehow feel more FREE and LIGHT and pretty darn STRONG for some reason! Much love, JBean

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-30-2001).]

Hi Janine, Good to hear from you again...you asked how i am doing this week. Well, i've gotten back to those 'practice walks' and look over something called "The JBean Panic Tools" before i venture out. How do ya like that!? I've been practicing going for 'speedwalks' in my area, up and down streets, with walkman on my head (great music)...something i did alot of last summer until i had this massive panic attack, which i allowed to stop me from continuing. So, i've begun to do this again...not ALL the streets i used to, but quite alot of them. So, i'm back to trying to be satisfied with my EFFORTS and the PROCESS and am leaving the idea of Montreal and September until September! Today i speedwalked around an enormous track (with two friends....not planned, we bumped into one another and ended up there) which is part of the old University of Toronto, and God....i had the most amazing time!!! Blue skies, birds flying, people running, i was in temporary Heaven!! I just found out that my parents are coming to Toronto in two weeks to see me...it's been 3 yrs. (did i already mention that?). I hope to God i will see that through in a calm and fruitful way. (they have never been able to comprehend this 'condition' of mine, and i think they find it frustrating to have to remain in the area i live in....while they're here) Anyway, i won't get into any of that right now. What i REALLY want to say in this particular post is: JANINE...I DON'T 'KNOW' YOU, BUT "I'M SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!" What a story! And thank you for sharing it with me. You are blessed to have such a mother...a mother that you felt it was possible to tell this to! I can imagine how difficult it would be to say this to her, when it was about her own husband. Do you think she ever suspected? Her being strong enough to hear that information, allowed you to purge something you've kept to yourself for so long! It's no wonder you are feeling 'free and light', as those experiences should not have been YOURS to carry. I'm very, very glad for you, that you have been able to put down this baggage that was probably 'heavier' than you knew. And now you slept last night! Bravo!!! You mentioned that your anxiety was covered up with alcohol....did you go to A.A. or stop on your own? The man i lived with for 13 years, who i am very close with now, is celebrating his 28th year of sobriety next month. I know quite alot about A.A.and all those 12 step programs. I know how insane you can feel after coming off alcohol (or any drug) and for you, panic emerged. You're dealing with it SO well....you're quite a gal! I find (after living with this for so many years) that i seem to need reinforcement and encouragement every so often, as i apply these tools. It is so easy for me to 'stop' trying and i want, more than anything else, to keep at it, daily, constantly. (i would organize a weekly meeting for agoraphobics and people with panic disorder.....but who would show up!!!!!) I have a fantasy of all of us (we who write to each other on this Forum) getting together one fine day....in some city....and celebrating our Freedom!!! On that note, i shall leave you for now. God bless and hope to talk with you soon. Much love, Lindi

quote:

Originally posted by Lindi:
Hi Janine, Good to hear from you again...you asked how i am doing this week. Well, i've gotten back to those 'practice walks' and look over something called "The JBean Panic Tools" before i venture out. How do ya like that!? I've been practicing going for 'speedwalks' in my area, up and down streets, with walkman on my head (great music)...something i did alot of last summer until i had this massive panic attack, which i allowed to stop me from continuing. So, i've begun to do this again...not ALL the streets i used to, but quite alot of them. So, i'm back to trying to be satisfied with my EFFORTS and the PROCESS and am leaving the idea of Montreal and September until September! Today i speedwalked around an enormous track (with two friends....not planned, we bumped into one another and ended up there) which is part of the old University of Toronto, and God....i had the most amazing time!!! Blue skies, birds flying, people running, i was in temporary Heaven!! I just found out that my parents are coming to Toronto in two weeks to see me...it's been 3 yrs. (did i already mention that?). I hope to God i will see that through in a calm and fruitful way. (they have never been able to comprehend this 'condition' of mine, and i think they find it frustrating to have to remain in the area i live in....while they're here) Anyway, i won't get into any of that right now. What i REALLY want to say in this particular post is: JANINE...I DON'T 'KNOW' YOU, BUT "I'M SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!" What a story! And thank you for sharing it with me. You are blessed to have such a mother...a mother that you felt it was possible to tell this to! I can imagine how difficult it would be to say this to her, when it was about her own husband. Do you think she ever suspected? Her being strong enough to hear that information, allowed you to purge something you've kept to yourself for so long! It's no wonder you are feeling 'free and light', as those experiences should not have been YOURS to carry. I'm very, very glad for you, that you have been able to put down this baggage that was probably 'heavier' than you knew. And now you slept last night! Bravo!!! You mentioned that your anxiety was covered up with alcohol....did you go to A.A. or stop on your own? The man i lived with for 13 years, who i am very close with now, is celebrating his 28th year of sobriety next month. I know quite alot about A.A.and all those 12 step programs. I know how insane you can feel after coming off alcohol (or any drug) and for you, panic emerged. You're dealing with it SO well....you're quite a gal! I find (after living with this for so many years) that i seem to need reinforcement and encouragement every so often, as i apply these tools. It is so easy for me to 'stop' trying and i want, more than anything else, to keep at it, daily, constantly. (i would organize a weekly meeting for agoraphobics and people with panic disorder.....but who would show up!!!!!) I have a fantasy of all of us (we who write to each other on this Forum) getting together one fine day....in some city....and celebrating our Freedom!!! On that note, i shall leave you for now. God bless and hope to talk with you soon. Much love, Lindi

Hi Lindaloo! Well. First let me say, I'm SO PROUD OF YOU! Good for you that you went out for our walks! BRAVO! You keep at it girl! The JBean Panic Tools. You crack me up! That just gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling. That's just such a nice thing to tell me. Makes me feel really good! I just got back from the healthclub myself. Went on the dreaded treadmill for 30 minutes. I don't like to do it, but I force myself (still have panic memories!), but it was fine. I try to remember what Lucinda said in her book whenever I don't feel like doing something... HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT? Well I want to feel good really, really bad! So, I keep at it. YOU TOO! Regarding the alchohol, no I never went to AA. I just gave it up on my own. It was easy because it made me feel horrible after a while and lost its effect. I have an occasional beer or wine every now and then, but I've really lost my taste and desire for it. Won't ever go back to the way I was. It doesn't do anything for me now. Now, my DAD on the other hand should be in AA but he never will. He drinks everyday and has my whole life. Well, gotta cut this whort for now. I also dream of meeting people here. It would be great! Maybe someday who knows!

P.S. THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT! It really means alot! Mom had no idea. She was never there and it didn't go on long. She feels bad about that but I she knows deep down it's not her fault.

Hugs! Jellybean



[This message has been edited by JBean64 (edited 05-30-2001).]