It makes me so happy to know that people are working so hard to overcome their anxiety....

If you really think about it.... as long as you are working on it, YOU CANNOT LOSE THIS BATTLE!!

I have been feeling wonderful lately. I just recently went through a long growth spurt and as uncomfortable it was and as negative as the comments were, it didn't stop me from pushing through the "fog".

One thing I have noticed about myself is that EVERY experience with a growth spurt is NEVER WASTED!!!!!!!!!!

EVERYTIME you walk through the "fog" and keep moving, you come out smarter, more confident and stronger than ever.

I just want to encourage everyone to keep walking forward even on those tough days. It is those tough days that you are learning from!!!! So NEVER wish them away !!!!

Learning to under-react to your feelings/symptoms is a very big part of recovery.
It's about learning to respond to your feelings/symptoms differently.

Keep moving forward everyone! Take the time to focus on the things around you, the things OUTSIDE yourself!! The more you do this, the more you will find peace in your journey!

God bless! @}---->---------------

Susan,
Amidst my positive self talk today, I had the worst panic attack I can remember ever having.
For the past few weeks, I have enetred a new level of anxiety, having severe panic many times a day.
You mentioned that we learn something every time we go through these things. I think I learned something about myself. I don't think that positive self talk is gonna get me out of this.
I "BELIEVE" that I am full of repressed anger, bitterness and guilt from years and years of being the nice guy, of trying to please my father then trying so hard to please God. I have spent years repenting of things that every human does. I have spent years "trying to be good", while SUPPRESSING the truth, suppressing the rage at myself for never learning to accept myself.
I do not think this program adequately addresses the problem of repressed emotions. I really believe that the reason I am more anxious lately is because these feelings are coming to the surface, and it is scary to deal with it all, and maybe thats why Im panicking.
Maybe I dont want to deal with the rage and anger I feel inside, the FALSE GUILT that makes me want to puke, the feeling that I must always be "GOOD".
How can I feel comfortable with myself when all these feelings are inside??
Trying to hold all of this energy in is what is causing the anxiety.
This program seems to say that regardless of what you feel INSIDE, you can merely self talk it away.
If I learned anything today, I learned that that IS NOT TRUE.
Sincerely,
Joe

Joe,

This program isn't the ONLY answer for recovery. Although it's a big part, sometimes people need more depending on their personal needs. Psychotherapy is important for those that have repressed feelings and that's why you are going to a therapist to work on these things.

Recovery includes working through your anger, forgiving others including yourself and making the decision to see things differently and then letting it go.

Anger=Fear much of the time! If you deal with your anger towards those you feel you cannot please, you will be dealing with your fear of inadequacy.

Positive/truthful thinking is most helpful and although you cannot see the truth in this right now because of your own "fog", someday you will know just how crucial it is in recovery. You gain nothing by lying to yourself. Your own lies keep you bound and chained....

This program doesn't teach that you can "self talk" your feelings away! Perhaps this is part of the problem you are having.... the program teaches you to ACCEPT your feelings and it teaches you to be compassionate and loving towards yourself and as you ACCEPT yourself "AS IS" and tell yourself the truth, you will notice your feelings changing inside as a result.

Joe, keep working with your therapist on this!
You have the courage to face your panic symptoms, so I know you have the courage to face your feelings and emotions. It's OK to feel them and experience their effect, but one must remember just because they "feel" something, doesn't mean what they are saying to themselves are fact.

Take a hard look at what you are telling yourself!!

Ask yourself these questions:
1. Is it true?
2. Can you absolutely know that it�s true?
3. How do you react when you think that thought?
4. Who would you be without the thought?
You might find some help using Byron Katies worksheet to work through some of your thoughts
http://www.thework.org/pdf/JudgeYourNeighborWorksheet.pdf

You may also consider reading "the Purpose driven life" by Rick Warren.

Don't rush through your therapy trying to make quick recovery. It doesn't happen that way.
Instead, be yourself, take your time and know that we are all here to help support you and encourage you along the way.

Take Care Joe! Today is a new day!

Susan,
Just now I was going to tell you that I was gonna try something different today. I was gonna say that I was going to make up my mind that I was going to pray and have a positive relationship with God, and work on being completely free from guilt and condemnation. In other words, be a christian who is not perfect, and stay away from asking forgiveness, assuming that I'm forgiven anyways. I was thinking that when I felt guilty I would just REFUSE to adress it, but rather confess to God that I was saved, and that my actions do not determine my salvation. In other words, I would use self talk in my relationship to God, by not beating myself up with Him, either.
Having said all that, my wife was just telling me how she is very hurt by something my brother in law did...he promised to give her a fountain from the house they are moving from, and then he ended up giving it to the home buyers.
So she was just telling me how hurt and upset she is, and she said to me, "See, thats the difference between you and me. I am upset and I am letting it out, but if it happened to you, you would just hold it in and not say anything."
Thats what I'm talking about. I have done that for years and years. Always the nice guy, and its fueled by the fear of angering or displeasing God.
I dont feel like I have the right to be Joe.
I feel like I have to follow a script, to be a christian.
Like a few minutes ago I took my son to school. On the way home I started getting panicky. I was thinking I was gonna have a heart attack. The thoughts had to do with God being displeased, or that I wasn't following God 100%, or something like that. Its a base fear that my salvation depends on my performance.
So lets say I see an attractive woman at my son's school, and then maybe somebody cuts me off getting out of the parking lot and I get mad and let out a curse word. Okay, at this point, in my old way of thinking, I am guilty, and if I were to die without confessing these sins, I would go to hell. Then, when I get anxious, I think, "Okay, I am guilty and God is gonna punish me and I might die and have a heart attack and then I will go to hell." THIS IS THE BASIS OF MY ANXIETY.
What can you say about this, and if it were you, how would you deal with it??
Thanks, Joe

Joe,

Old habits die hard. This problem of yours that has to do with God has been around for a very long time. It isn't going to go away overnight but rather in it's own time as long as you learn to react to it differently.

One thing I noticed you said was:

quote:

So lets say I see an attractive woman at my son's school, and then maybe somebody cuts me off getting out of the parking lot and I get mad and let out a curse word. Okay, at this point, in my old way of thinking, I am guilty, and if I were to die without confessing these sins, I would go to hell.

Is it true? Would you go to hell if you didn't apologize to God for your cursing?

Can you absolutely know that it's true????

I think you already know the answers to these questions.

According the the scriptures, you are "blood bought" and property of the living God. When God looks at you, HE SEES HIS SON....NOT YOUR SIN!

This IS the truth! So you must tell yourself this whenever those old thoughts try to deceive you.

You really cannot expect to be like your wife. We are all different, each in our own way. If you feel you need to be more assertive in sharing how you feel ( in a controlled way), then work on doing just that. Begin doing this on paper...write how you feel and don't withhold anything. ( this technique is used in the above worksheet I gave you).... use this form to journal if you want. Your emotions and feelings need an outlet and journalling is a "safe" place to express yourself without fear of repercussion.
It also allows you to go back and read what you wrote and gives you the ability to ask yourself those 4 important questions....

What are you getting out of your obsessions and anxiety? Lucinda says we are getting "something" otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. So ask yourself this.

Anxiety has a way of distracting us from the things we TRULY fear.... such as sharing our feelings or standing up for ourselves!

Ask yourself questions Joe. With EVERY negative, bothersome thought that you have trouble with... do the worksheet above! and then ask the 4 questions. Do this EVERYTIME the thought comes to mind even if it's the same thought over and over....

It takes time to work this out but if you are persistant, your new truths will take place of the old garbage.

I know it's frustrating Joe. We were told some days would be like this, some more than others and that's OK. It's to be expected.

I hope this helps.

Susan,
I have though much about why I choose to panic, and what am I so afraid to look at?
I really think that I have alot of hurt and grief from my childhood and expectations about what my life could or should have been.
Grateful sent me an email describing a situation where God asked a woman to forgive the killer of her mother when she was a child. Then God said to forgive her mother, then He said she needed to forgive God Himself.
As I read the story I was sobbing. I then asked God why He gave me parents who didnt show love, why He allowed so much pain in my young life.
I asked Him WHY, WHY, WHY.
I felt as if poison was coming out of me..feelings that have long been repressed.
Then I later called my sister who has been through anxiety, and I asked her about what I was feeling about this. I asked her if she thought my anxiety was caused because I did not want to deal with the pains of my childhood, and she agreed that I was using anxiety as a distraction to avoid my childhood. I don't believe I can ever accept myself until I look at my past and come to terms with it. Maybe I thought I had already done that in previous years, but sometimes we are not ready to confront these things until we are older. I feel angry and hurt, I feel a false guilt, I have feelings of loss and remorse, and I feel like I need to explore all of that.
I cannot see how you can fight anxiety when you are clueless as to why you have it to begin with. Now, I feel like I know what's going on. I am wanting to deal with the past and heal the past, and the anxiety kicks in when I become afraid to look at it.
I must have never picked this up during the program, or maybe, like my sister said, I wasn't ready to hear it.

Thief,

I am convinced that you are really ready to tackle your BIG fears... the ones inside yourself.

It's VERY scary at times, so please know that it's completely normal to feel the feelings. Just remind yourself that it's OK to feel it.

Float with it like the ocean waves!

God is doing something marvelous in you Joe!!
I know you can't see it, you can't taste it, you can't hear it, but when God makes a promise.... a promise is a promise!!!! He has such a marvelous way of using the negative things in life for our own benefit. What Satan meant for evil.....God will turn it around to our good !! Amen?

I believe and have faith that you are on the right road.

Be yourself....don't be afraid....God loves you no matter what....

You are really making big progress!!! Please believe this!!

I am thinking and praying for you my brother!

Thiefonthecross:
From your posts here, I can really sense the struggle you are feeling . There are a couple of things I want to touch on in hopes of giving you a more positive outlook on things.

First, it is great that you strive to be a good person and a nice guy. We could use more of that in our society! Like you, I have struggled and still struggle at times on fairness in life. I try really hard to be a good person and yet I see people who aren't even attempting to be moral and responsible and yet good things just come their way. Also it bothers me that they get away with their bad behavior since people aren't held responsible for their behavior these days. But what it comes down to is what do you expect out of yourself? You have to look in the mirror each day. You have to decide for yourself what your morals and responsibilities will be. And for those who select to behave poorly, they have to be willing to deal with the potential consequences of their behavior.

If cursing and admiring good looking people is the worst you can say about yourself then I don't think you have much to feel guilty about. Give yourself a break! It sounds like you are a pretty moral person and you should be proud of that.

It sounds to me like you are living your life based on how you think others believe you should live your life, instead of living it the way YOU think you should. You can't live your life on what you should supposedly do. You have to live life the way you think it ought to be lived, otherwise you will be in a constant state of tension. Plus if you really did try to live life like other people want you to, it would be impossible. Everyone has their own ideas on what is the "right" way of living. So if you tried meeting other's expectations you would be running around everywhere trying to do something that can't be done. You can't do what others think you should do because other people can't even agree on what is "right". You can't obtain something that doesn't really exist.

Don't beat up on yourself for what you did to yourself in the past. It is not going to do any good. It is only going to wear you down. Try to learn from the past and help shape your future to what you want it to be.

Don't allow your past and the people in your past to destroy your life in the present. If you do allow it to destroy your present, then you not only had a miserable past, you have now allowed it to sour the present moment and possibly the future. Then you will just be looking back at more and more years that were soured by those first few years. Your life is different now. You are an adult who now can make decisions. Allow yourself to enjoy the present and be glad the past is in the past. You don't have to know what specifically caused your anxiety. You can get better regardless. Try looking forward, instead of backwards.

In regards to your comment about holding your feelings in, I think your wife made a good point. If anyone allows things to boil up inside, they will feel the consequences of it. You have to decide when you can just let things go without saying anything and when you do need to speak up. It is NOT rude to express to someone how you feel (as long as you keep it polite and don't come out attacking them). You are still a good person and probably would be a healthier person if you could release some of your feelings from time to time. Also you could have more energy to spend toward your family, work, etc. when you learn to release tension in a healthier manner. You have to keep in mind too, that you are human and sometimes you won't behave well. You have to learn from that poor behavior, try to make it right if at all possible, develop a plan to not repeat it, and accept the consequences of that behavior. Then you have to let it go. Nobody is perfect, it just matters how you handle your imperfections.

We all have things in our past that didn't go as we wanted or in fact just came crumbling down. But what you do with those bad times is what is important. Do you let it destroy you and the rest of your life? Or do you try to learn from it if you can, gain strength from it, or just accept it was an awful situation all together. Don't waste your life on things that are over and done with otherwise in ten years you will have even more things you regret.

Hope this was helpful . I just could really sense your pain in your posts and wanted to offer an alternative view.

Susan and Amethyst,
Thank you for your replies.
It's very scary to confront yourself and how you see yourself.
Last night I was at my neice's wedding, and all my family was there. I'll give you a perfect example of what my struggle has been for many years.
We left the house late, and the directions to the wedding were confusing. When I realized that we might be late, I started to panic. I took deep breaths the whole ride there, with a car load of people. I was angry that the directions were not clear. As soon as we got there, my cousin met us, and he said the same thing about the directions. I told him how mad I was ans used curse words to describe my frustrations, to which he replied the same way. But here's my point...I was tempted to tell myself, "Great, here you are, the "family christian", and the first words out of your mouth are curse words! You failed! You're suppose to be salt and light! What a bad testimony!".
See, when I first started coming to this forum, and up until a few months ago, I was CONSTANTLY reacting to things like that. If that had happened months ago, I would have excused myself to go find a bathroom, and I would have told God that I was sorry for the bad witness, that I was wrong to express my feelings like that, and then I would "repent", and I would walk out of that bathroom a different person. I would become very concious of my behaviour and words, in an attempt to "live for God". Then, the next time I got ticked off or made a crass joke or saw a beautiful woman I would again feel like a failure, find a place to talk to God and repent, and trey it again. I made such a big deal out of my behaviour, that I was CONSTANTLY going back and forth, like I was two people, instead of just accepting my humanity and being both godd, and bad.
Anyways, I didn't "repent", and for the rest of the night I was just being myself with my family, not trying to be "salt or light", just being Joe.
I even forgot about myself long enough to dance at the reception, and heaven forbid, I had a beer.
(Only one since I had already popped a few xanax).
But I was open with some family members about my anxiety, and I spoke to my cousins who cconsider themselves born again christians, and they all told me that I am too hard on myself. It helped to hear them say that.
But as soon as I got in the car to drive home, I started getting anxious, and I panicked all the way home.
I think the reason I am having anxiety is because I am no longer giving in to the old way of repenting all the time, and it is very scary to "stand up to God", and I guess the fear is that any day now, any moment, God is going to get tired of my "evil and folly", and He's gonna get me...like giving me a heart attack. Which is why when I panic, I fear that I'm having a heart attack.
So anyways, I guess if I had to sum up what I really think is happening to me, I would say that I am in the process of becoming me, like the velveteen rabbit, and in order to do that, I must stand up to this "god" who has always tormented me and told me that I must be perfect to be saved.
It is VERY scary.
Thank you both,
Joe

Joe,

God is good, noone is "out to get you", especially Him. He IS on your side!
Our humanity is what brought Jesus to this earth, to do what WE cannot do for ourselves!

I think you handled the wedding just fine! And you should give yourself a pat on the back for REACTING differently than you normally do.
Isn't that what it's all about? Changing your behavior and changing your thinking? It's hard work so give yourself some credit.

It's scary because you are letting your guard down and there is a part of you that feels insecure about your new way of doing things. There is a part of you that says "are you sure it's OK to let this go? What if...." That's normal....just keep reminding yourself of the truth Joe. You have been a slave to your negative beliefs for a long time and you are conditioned, it's time for C-H-A-N-G-E !!

God knows your heart deep down and He knows just how much you want to "be" and "do" right in your life. This is what matters!!

I remember listening to a preacher once and he talked about his own Christian life and how he would be living his life right and living in the Spirit and then BOOM....he's jumps out of his Spirit and into his flesh and then back into the Spirit again. He went on to say that it's normal and it's the human condition, he said what matters is that we don't stay there.

I know that this makes sense to you because we both share many of the same beliefs. It's only reassurance that your experience is normal and reality in the Christian walk. There is NO peace when you fight with reality!!!!!

I am proud of you Joe for doing things differently that you've been doing them! This is a wonderful success for you!!! Keep up the great work!

Thank you Susan,
I actually had a good day today.
I was fine this morning, then I had to go to home depot. As soon as I got in the truck, I started to panic. I drove about 50 yards, turned around and came home and took a xanax. I was angry at this lack of my ability to control this.
I took out my workbook and started sharing it with my wife, particularly chapter two talking about not fearing the feelings.
I suddenly felt better and felt very positive, and I went to home depot, and I felt so good that I decided to go have breakfast by myself. Then I spent the rest of the day painting at the rental, and I felt fine all day, went to home depot again, etc., And just had a good positive day.
So it was just a one xanax day.
I CAN see that positive attitude is everything.
How you see the anxiety, and knowing that WE are the only ones creating it, and that being positive is how you overcome this.
I am looking forward to more good days than bad.
Thank you Susan for always being a true friend.
Joe

I believe in you Joe! But more importantly is that YOU believe in yourself!

Good to hear you had a great day!