quote:

Originally posted by guitartom:

quote:

Posted by Beat Anxiety:
Health Balls are an old practice used in Chinese culture to help relieve stress, help with concentration and calm a racing mind. They are also used a lot in Kung Fu

Thanks for the info. I'm wondering after reading the information in the link that you provided if playing guitar might offer some of the same benifits.

Tom

I wouldn't doubt it. I once saw a program, I think on the discovery channel, that disussed the healing benefits of playing the harp, but other instruments as well. It had something to do with the vibrations and your nervous system - there actually is some science behind it.

-------------------------

I read a good Taoist phrase the other day, thought I'd share:

"Living plants are flexible. In death, they become dry and brittle. Therefore, stubborn people are disciples of death, but flexible people are disciples of life." Lao Tzu

When I first read this I thought it was contradictory of everything the Tao Te Ching teaches. However, what it is saying is exactlly what the Tao Te Ching teaches, we never die for we will always be apart of the Universe. Consciousness is all that makes us feel seperate.

Living your whole life, while fearing death, trying to understand death, or waiting for death is essentially - missing out on life. We can preach damnation or preach what we call the truth. But, it is those that live in the momment and believe the Universe is eternal, that are enjoying life each day.

Simply be... and accept what is..

for beatanxiety07, Was very interested in the Toltec teachings you mentioned. I believe there are many teachers out there and entertain the idea that we are ALL ONE. I believe in universal energy and the Law of Attraction. Have you read the Secret or Conversations with God books by Neale Donald Walsh. Excellent reading! Neale talks about God needing nothing from us. He/She is always there and that there are no coincidences in life. I think religion can create a lot of guilt and anxiety because it makes you feel like you can never measure up, and somehow you've failed. Thats a tough message.

quote:

Posted by BeatAnxiety:
"Living plants are flexible. In death, they become dry and brittle. Therefore, stubborn people are disciples of death, but flexible people are disciples of life." Lao Tzu

Thanks for sharing that John. The truth in these verses can be seen everyday if one looks for them. I thought I might share one of my favorites from the Toa Te Ching:

"Thirty spokes connect to the wheel's hub;
yet, it is the centre hole that makes it useful.
Clay is shaped into a vessel;
yet, it is the emptiness within that makes it useful.
Doors and windows are cut for a room;
yet it is the space where there is nothing that makes it useful.
Therefore, though advantage comes from what is;
usefulness comes from what is not." Loa Tzu

Ever notice how much more productive ones mind is when it is not so cluttered with obsessive thoughts? Perhaps this verse is more easily understood by the obsessive thinker than most.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by kimmer:
for beatanxiety07, Was very interested in the Toltec teachings you mentioned. I believe there are many teachers out there and entertain the idea that we are ALL ONE. I believe in universal energy and the Law of Attraction. Have you read the Secret or Conversations with God books by Neale Donald Walsh. Excellent reading! Neale talks about God needing nothing from us. He/She is always there and that there are no coincidences in life. I think religion can create a lot of guilt and anxiety because it makes you feel like you can never measure up, and somehow you've failed. Thats a tough message.

Hey Kimmer,

I haven't read anything by him but they sound like good reads, they will probably offer some criticism to some beliefs that I hold. Thanks for the tip.

I also agree with you about religion creating guilt. It also creates tons of fear.

Tom,

Very nice. That is a very good quote.

I was thinking to myself the other day about some discussions that have been going on in here and how they relate to obsessions. I recalled a good quote while reading a book on advaita, the author says something like - "Imagine someone going over to a well. They begin to pull on the rope in order to bring to the surface, a bucket with water, however this is an endless well, endless rope and there is no bucket. Sadly this person keeps pulling and pulling to find nothing." - Many monks constantly seek out enlightment but meet with utter failure. The struggle to find enlightenment actually helps prevent the person from reaching enlightenment.

This is similar to OCD. If you have an obsession and you continue to try and make the obsession go away, thinking there is some magic button (a bucket at the bottom of the rope), then the obsession will stay and you will continue on with this enldess struggle. Let the thoughts be, simply be, accept what is and all else will fall into place.

Einstein once said: "Insantiy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

- John

seeing that this thread is for followers of differn't faiths i was wondering if it would be okay for some of you to pray for me , i believe in pretty much all things, and dont like to pray to just one being or another, i am going through a really hard time, relationship wise, financial wise, and mental wise... I would really appreciate it,
Thanks,
Heather

quote:

Originally posted by Untooleze:
seeing that this thread is for followers of differn't faiths i was wondering if it would be okay for some of you to pray for me , i believe in pretty much all things, and dont like to pray to just one being or another, i am going through a really hard time, relationship wise, financial wise, and mental wise... I would really appreciate it,
Thanks,
Heather

Hey Heather,

Let me first welcome you to the site. You have come to a great place that is filled with loving, encouraging and intuitive members.

Although, I can not offer you prayer, I can offer you hope, love, exchange of ideas, and encouragment. This forum will become a great tool for you and I hope your healing will begin now. You can rest assured that the majority of members on here, pray for people like you everyday.

"Of all the problems a person can face, a persons biggest problem is attempting to solve all their problems." Some Eastern Wisdom

Best Wishes and Welcome!

- John

quote:

Originally posted by Untooleze:
seeing that this thread is for followers of differn't faiths i was wondering if it would be okay for some of you to pray for me , i believe in pretty much all things, and dont like to pray to just one being or another, i am going through a really hard time, relationship wise, financial wise, and mental wise... I would really appreciate it,
Thanks,
Heather

Heather,

Sorry you are going through such a hard time. You are in my prayers.

Take care,
Tina

Wow. I'm Christian and looked in here just to see what other religions had to say concerning anxiety etc. I'm seeing a lot of Christian-bashing "typical bible packing hypocrits" etc. Is that all non Christians do? It looks like a sandbox for taking out anger and hatred for Christians, instead of exploring your own religions and your own solutions for anxiety. Golly it just seems like I made the right choice in being Christian because I don't sit around bashing anyone else's beliefs. I've got an agnostic husband so I'd have many an opportunity if I was that way. It just seems terribly sad that you have so much hate in you instead of finding LOVE in your own beliefs.

Well, I haven't been on the forum, especially in this section, in awhile but since I saw this thread towards the top-- despite ignorant comments by some --I still thought that this would be a good time to share another good book that I stumbled across.

I was a little weary about reading this at first since I've already read the Tao Te Ching and feel that it is the best Taoist book in existence-- its basically the taoist bible anyway-- but I thought I'd give "The Tao of Pooh" a try. This was actually a pretty good book and is a great book for anyone that hasn't
had any experience with Taoism.

Basically, the author teaches the reader about Taoism and its fundamental principles in a glorified analogy to winnie the pooh. At first I thought this was a joke until I began to realize how much winnie the pooh is in fact someone in touch with the Tao. So check it out if you have the time-- it can be read in under four hours.

The jist of it, as I have probably said before, is: "Ignorance is bliss!"

"If you eliminate good, evil serves no purpose. Quit your searching and simply be..."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BeatAnxiety07,

quote:

Posted by BeatAnxiety07:
Tom,

Very nice. That is a very good quote.

I was thinking to myself the other day about some discussions that have been going on in here and how they relate to obsessions. I recalled a good quote while reading a book on advaita, the author says something like - "Imagine someone going over to a well. They begin to pull on the rope in order to bring to the surface, a bucket with water, however this is an endless well, endless rope and there is no bucket. Sadly this person keeps pulling and pulling to find nothing." - Many monks constantly seek out enlightment but meet with utter failure. The struggle to find enlightenment actually helps prevent the person from reaching enlightenment.

This is similar to OCD. If you have an obsession and you continue to try and make the obsession go away, thinking there is some magic button (a bucket at the bottom of the rope), then the obsession will stay and you will continue on with this enldess struggle. Let the thoughts be, simply be, accept what is and all else will fall into place.

I understand exactly what you are saying John. It wasn't until I learned though meditation to let thoughts be without judging them that I truly started to understand this disorder. All of my searching (ruminating) until this point had been futile.

I read an article brought to attention in a thread started by Ld26angel that talked about how thoughts constantly float by in our minds and how we notice some and not others. Some of these random thoughts might frighten us so we latch on to it and attach emotion to it. This is Western cognitive therapy that sounds just like eastern metaphysics. This is the link to that thread: http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/240105472/m/1071089873

quote:

I was a little weary about reading this at first since I've already read the Tao Te Ching and feel that it is the best Taoist book in existence-- its basically the taoist bible anyway-- but I thought I'd give "The Tao of Pooh" a try. This was actually a pretty good book and is a great book for anyone that hasn't
had any experience with Taoism.

I been meaning to pick up that book for a long time. I think next time I'm at the book store I'll pick it up.

Tom

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GuitarTom,

quote:

Originally posted by GuitarTom:
I understand exactly what you are saying John. It wasn't until I learned though meditation to let thoughts be without judging them that I truly started to understand this disorder. All of my searching (ruminating) until this point had been futile.

I read an article brought to attention in a thread started by Ld26angel that talked about how thoughts constantly float by in our minds and how we notice some and not others. Some of these random thoughts might frighten us so we latch on to it and attach emotion to it. This is Western cognitive therapy that sounds just like eastern metaphysics. This is the link to that thread: http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/240105472/m/1071089873

Thanks for the link, that was a very good article. I like the part where they say: "It is not the intrusive thoughts in themselves that cause you distress. It is how you are responding to those thoughts." Right on! I've been saying this since I got over the OCD.

I think this is why I love eastern thought. They could have treated someone with OCD thousands of years ago. They truly were a head of their times in the psychological sense.

Untooleze,
I will be Glad to pray for you!! Not a problem at all... I hope your doing the program, it offers so much to help you overcome anxiety,,, Take Care Nelly

In continuing our conversation about how Eastern thought relates to obsessive thoughts and anxiety I thought I would quote a couple of paragraphs from a book that I read that has probably helped me more than any other book I've read. The book is "Turning The Mind Into An Ally" by Sakyong Mipham. It's a book intended to help anybody gain a more balanced mind through a Buddhist approach, not just people with anxiety disorder. Actually Sakyong states in the book that the the practices he teaches can be beneficial to anyone no matter what their faith is.

The first paragraph is from the chapter titled "Taking Our Seat". He is explaining the state of mind we are trying to achieve when meditating.

quote:

We need precision to apply the technique and bring our minds back to the breath. It's said that great meditators become so centered that they can feel their blood flow. They can actually sense the atomic level of their cellular structure. We need gentleness to keep the process neutral and light-handed. We don't need to analyze or judge a thought when it arises, or judge ourselves for having it. The contents of the thought, whether it's about the football game or our deepest, darkest secret, are neither good nor bad. A thought is just a thought. Chastising ourselves for thinking is also just a thought. So the instruction is to see the thought as a distraction and come back to the breath. This kind of gentleness makes for a healthy meditation practice.

This second paragraph is from the chapter titled "How To Gather A Scattered Mind"

quote:

So we simply recognize those thoughts, and then we recognize them again. We're noticing the movement of our mind. Once we've recognized them, we begin to acknowledge them in passing: "Oh! A thought!" The point is to be quick and neutral. If we look at the thought slowly, deliberately, or judgmentally, we'll only add more thoughts to the process. That won't help. A thought has occurred, it is neither good nor bad. Recognizing and acknowledging brings us back to where we are, sitting on a cushion and trying to place our mind on the breath. We're learning how to cut though the discursiveness.

I thought these two paragraphs, though they are an extremely small taste of what Buddhism is about, would help to illustrate how I think it relates to helping people cope with anxiety, or any other negative state of mind.

Many people think that Buddhism is a religion where one worships Buddha. It's not that at all. It's just a path, a way to achieve a more healthy and balanced state of mind. I'm not trying to push Buddhism on anyone. I recognize the fact that it is not the only path, but it would be nice if I could increase someone's understanding, and maybe introduce it to somebody that it will help as much as it has helped me.

Tom

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GuitarTom,

Thanks for this thread. I have been a student of Zen Buddhism for 10 years, and have been a daily meditator for 20 years. Still, I find it amazingly helpful to do this anxiety program. Zen teaches how to let thoughts flow through, not be caught by them -- return always to the present moment and what's actually happening, not our internal tapes. That discipline has been tremendously helpful to me. Life-changing.

At the same time, I find it necessary to engage negative thoughts directly, as session three teaches. I have been surprised - as a spiritual peson -- to find how negative my thinking is. Just observing it is so powerful. Replacing negative thoughts with positive ones (while not ignoring what's actually happening, not trying to paper it over with falsely sweet sayings) -- this is helping me a lot.

Any other Buddhists out there?

Missouri Gal

Hi Missouri gal,

I also found the program to be very helpful. I actually wasn't a practicing Buddhist at the time that I bought the program. I had read books about Buddhism before but mostly just as an intellectual endeavor. The program helped me to recognize unrealistic negative thoughts. Shortly after I started to gain control I learned to meditate.

Practicing Buddhism and this program have both been instrumental in my emotional well being. For me they compliment each other quite nicely.

Can you recommend any good reading on Zen for me. Most of my reading has been kind of an Americanized-Tibetan form. I would like to know more about Zen and the differences to Tibetan Buddhism.

Tom