quote:

nobody has ever understood like this before.

There are Christians who do understand and are compassionate, but there are also many Christians who don't understand and are uncaring, critical, and unloving.

I agree with McGrace. I think some of our suffering is of our own making. But, some of it is not. I was involved with a Christian ministry years ago in college. What I learned from these well meaning people was that performance was more important than being loving and compassionate. Their view of God was that He was more interested in how I performed and what I did ministry wise than loving me as an individual and allowing me to be who He created me to be.

I literally suffered spiritual abuse around these folks and it's taken its toll over the years. Even after experiencing God's presence during this ordeal and discipling an invidvidual as a result, it still wasn't good enough for them. Years later I tried to get back with these folks again because I respect how they live their lives. Nothing had changed. One person who I had always considered a friend told me that my faith was useless and quoted me the verse out of James which states that faith without works is dead. This crap while I was meeting in Bible studies with them weekly, meeting with God daily, sharing my faith with those who were receptive to it in my work.

I honestly don't know what goes through the minds of folks like this. I can not comprehend it. I would advise you to seek the fellowship of other Christians who have a more balanced and truthful view of Christ and scripture. There is also a book I would recommend. It's called "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church" by David Jouhnson & Jeff VanVonderen.

In my Opinion, it's a sin to shoot the wounded.

Seek and rely upon Jesus Christ, not man, to guide you in your spiritual walk. Hebrews 8:10-12 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

Developing a love relationship with God through Christ is the most meaningful and important thing a person could ever do, in my opinion. I'm not talking about "playing Church". Seeking His love daily, experiencing that love, and as a result, desiring to return it by allowing Him full access to our lives and our actions. Not living by a code of conduct through self effort, but discovering how much God loves you through seeking HIm and meeting with Him and in gratitude living in that love daily. That's honestly what was happening to me when my friend told me my faith was useless.

again, i want to thank everyone for the support. it has made me feel like i can go to work and maybe not be afraid. i am so afraid to go to work. i don't want to miss work.but it is just that i know i will have anxiety attack on the drive there. i have made a decision though. i am going to move into my own place. i've been thinking about it for a long time. i want to do the program alone. i did have my own place for a while. my mother and her friends wanted me to move back with her. i will get an efficency apt. i do read the word. emperor1

Depression/anxiety is not a sin any more than cancer is a sin.

I am a Christian, and I believe that as part of the Curse in Eden, sin affected every part of our human nature. Not just our bodies, but our minds and emotions as well. The idea that our bodies are susceptible to illness, but not our minds or emotions is ludicrous. We can get cancer in our brains, and that's okay, but if the chemicals that regulate how we feel don't work right, we're sinning? That is so not true.

I am coming to grip with the fact that I do need more faith but, my problems come from a lot of negative thoughts and what if anxiety. Prayer has been part of helping and I do see God working to lead me to books and other tools to help me. God gave Adam and Eve clothes to protect them (tools, per se). No one would suggest we not use clothes. Being transformed by the renewing of our minds is reprogramming.
I have just decided to try this program and leave the results to God. It could be the way He has provided. God bless you.

Isabeau; sin affected every part of our human nature. Not just our bodies, but our minds and emotions as well.

I agree! We are all cursed, we all sin, and we are all savable. I would suggest to you the book, Deadly Emotions, to help you see how much our emotions, can make us sick, a broken bone, or a broken heart are both curable, we need bandages, and crutches for both of them to mend, in time. Exercise, Therapy, all very helpful, to mending what ever is broken, but to merely lay there and take drugs (bandage/crutch), will not mend either physical break, or mental breaks. We must work toward a cure, not just a patch, in either respect. This course does just that.
I just read a quote yesterday I also agree with, Depression is anger with no enthusiasm

I was up late the other night and looking for inspiration on this topic, so I googled "is depression a sin" and was disappointed in what I found. There was nothing encouraging to post in here. It's both amazing and depressing to read article after article on how depression is a weakness or character flaw and giving in to it is a sin.
I'm quoting here, NOT AGREEING, but this is what I came across and it is very disturbing to me. "Unfortunately, this discussion (like so many) boils down to definitions. In his article Steve borrows Robert Smith’s defininition of depression as: a debilitating mood, feeling, or attitude of hopelessness (despair or joylessness), which becomes a person’s reason for not handling the most important issues of life. Now it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that is sinful. Simply not handling the “most important issues of life” is (by definition) sinful."

Another article had this to say "Scripture points to many issues of sin or conflict that can affect your emotions; most counselors would agree that depression can result from other underlying issues. Don't just worry about the depression itself; check to see what other problems need attention."

And the 3rd article states "God cares about our hearts more than He does our outward actions. And it is your heart that directly relates to your depression. But I thought we were going to talk about sin? We are. The sin of the heart. The illusive sin that creeps into our hearts and gives Satan permission to hurt us and keep us in bondage. And what sin is that? There are three that dominate our lives. These are the sins of pride, lust, and lack of trusting God. With these three sins in your heart, you rob yourself of peace, and you rob yourself of the life abundant that God has promised you. It's there for the taking, but you have to want it badly enough to give up the sins of the heart. Again, I need to emphasize that I'm not minimizing your pain and your history. It is my heart to help you see that you have more control over its affect on you than you think. You can't control what you don't understand."

Your thoughts, please?

You can't control what you don't understand."

If a person could control it without the Grace of God, Jesus would not have had to be sacrificed. Mello said it: depression is not new, it is as old as Kane, Elijah, David, even Jesus wrestled with in, that is why He understands us and still Loves us while we are yet in our sin. controlling the heart is to difficult to do alone. the Holly Spirit (the peace that passes all understanding) is hear to comfort us, and to guide us. Depression, Alcoholism, Addiction of any kind is very difficult to fight alone. This program, is a God sent to help us to overcome, that broken part of us
, some times it is a chemical imbalance, We do need to understand that. I am allergic to Chocolate, when I eat it I get migraines, and the pain shoves me in to depression, my mom is allergic to Wheat, when she eats bread she gets inflammation (arthritis) the pain pushes her in to depression. these things matter and can often trigger depression, understanding what is your trigger, weather it is chemical, or emotional; I was raised by a Marine, and he didn't think I should cry, so I didn't, that makes dealing with the pain in life very difficult, my body reacts in other ways. Those of us who are in the problem need help from, MD's physiatrists, Pastors, fellow suffers, like Lucinda Basset, and Jesus..
But there is no help in labeling it, or shaming any one for it. all sin is just that sin. Take the top 10, a lie, is just as big a sin as murder. We humans what to put it in degrees, but God is no respecter of persons, there are no degrees of sin, we have all come short. It is not our job to judge each other only to Love each other, and give each other grace, and understanding. from reading this thread, it is obvious we all know depression is a sin, we all know suicide is a sin, but people are still killing themselves slowly, with cigarettes, or drugs, alcohol, but for the Grace of God all of us would give up and reach for some form of addiction. Some Christians will point to an alcoholic, and yet gluttony is their sin, none of us are innocent, we are to have compassion for others, as for me I needed to have compassion for me, and Lucinda helped me to do that. . .
We are all living in some type of sin, pointing at others is not good for any of us. Simply stating Depression is a sin, is not understanding it. it is labeling it, and that is no help, understanding it, is what Journaling does, looking inside ourselves, and digging out the rotten roots that causes it, will help us understand it. but that is for each of us to do for ourselves, with the love of God and fellow sufferers, like Lucinda Basset, we can understand it. this course is a wonderful tool, for not only understanding it but over coming it, we are called to be overcomes, and we all have something to overcome.
I believe Depression is just one of many mountains we all have to overcome, one of the tests of life, The closer to God we want to be the more we must work on our own sins.

Thank you, cfe, for giving it some perscpective for me. You can't imagine how easily I get confused reading some things. That's one reason my brain stays in turmoil.
Funny what you mentioned about being raised by a Marine (God bless all service men and women). I was married to a Marine for 11 years. Being needy was unacceptable and the stress began to show itself in physical symptoms for me too, including unrelenting migraines.
Thank goodness for this course and all the help God gives to help us overcome.

Wow, emperor, you've really sparked quite a discussion. I'm glad you're encouraged.

It sounds like you are taking a great step by moving out on your own. . . . This talk of personal responsibility and God-given independence has reminded me of Boundaries and other related books by Steve Arteburn and Henry Cloud.

You might want to supplement your work in this program with some of their work, as you're ready. In fact, they have a website--and I got the following article from it:
The Simple Scoop on Boundaries

Also, you mentioned fear around work. You might want to start a new discussion on that, too.

Actually, I am starting a new job, which has me excited. So, I think I'll start a discussion of my own--perhaps you'll contribute to it, too! (you can find it by clicking on my name and viewing my recent posts.)

I too am married to a Marine, with Lucinda's help I have been able to stand up for my slef and express myself, better, You know what they say, you realy do marry you Dad, well, they were both Corprels in the 1st division, Dad WWII my husband Nam. PTSD is not new, and it takes years, to overcome, I like to think I have helped both of them, and now I am helping myself. and that is building our marriage, of 38 years. I quit 8 years ago, and let him know I quit, if it was never going to change, I only wish I had done it sooner, for our childrens sake, but all in God's timeing, now I am helping my childre too. God knows best.

MC Grace, I appologise, I quoted you earlyer, and gave Mello the credit, I knew I should have taken time to look. I am sorry, I read your post obviously, but didn't give you the credit, I appreciated your coments at the time

My husband has great respect for Billy Graham and what he says. I found this on his website:

DEAR BILLY GRAHAM: Is it a sin to be depressed? The doctor says I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that he can treat with medication, but a friend of mine says I shouldn’t do this because I just need to pray and have more faith. Who is right? I can’t stand this much longer. — Mrs. A.B.

DEAR MRS. A.B.: If you broke your arm in an accident, do you think your friend would claim it was a sin for you to have a broken arm and all you needed to do was pray? I doubt it.

Neither is it a sin for you to seek treatment for a chemical imbalance in your brain. The Bible says that we are “fearfully and wonderfully made” (Psalm 139:14), and it’s true: Our bodies and minds are very complex. Although doctors can’t solve all our problems, we should be grateful that God has enabled them to understand more about our bodies and minds and has given them new ways to overcome many of our problems. Don’t feel that you are somehow sinning by seeking treatment for your depression; it would be wrong for you not to seek treatment.

Graham is Absolutely right, that is just it, how you got there would take a team of Dr.s and they are just practicing. how to get you out, will take some medication, some counseling, and the grace of God

Daily Christian Wisdom

Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence.

I have a question regarding one of the posts on here... Artistguy said the apostle Paul had bipolar. Please send me a personal message so I can look up the scriptures. I have been asking different people about the "thorn in Paul's side" and would like to read on it.

Thanks... Angie

Artistguy - I, too would like to know where in the scriptures it states that Paul was Bi-polar. Granted he talked about the "thorn in his side", but I have never in my many years have ever read what his affiction was. Thanks, Judy

maybe this was already talked about but I've been taught that a Christian cannot get depression because the Holy Spirit is in us, therefore the spirit of depression cannot co-exist. But I beg to differ. I know I'm saved but I've been having this constant "internal pain" (depression) for some time now. I don't think it's a sin. My depression comes from not being happy with where I am in life and thinking that I am failing myself and the goals that I set for me. I'm getting better though... we only need to remember our HOPE is in Jesus Christ and we have power and authority to change our situations and we have to learn to be content in all things like Paul said. I'm learning. Please pray for me.