Discerning the Intention of Anxiety-Panic-Depression (Part One)

Hi Each and Everyone,

It's my experience that a vast majority of us with anxiety-panic-depression are, at our core, on that path of our journey involving a search for true meaning (in life, career, relationship, you name it): A sometimes anxious, panicky and depressing path often inspired by the death of a loved one, or another life impacting event. The unique set of traits those of us blessed with anxiety-panic-depression share seem well suited for just such a path.

I came to make this connection for myself some time after completing the Midwest Center Attacking Anxiety & Depression Program. The tools of the program helped greatly with symptoms, but more importantly laid the foundation for a wonderfully freeing positive mind-set for the search of true meaning. Simply stated: The key to my anxiety-panic-depression was directly related to embracing my true self through a personal search for true meaning in my own life. Embracing this true search with a wonderfully freeing positive mind-set seemed to be enough to overcome the need for my true self to find voice in anxiety-panic-depression over not being on my true path. The good news is that simply my true intention about this path seems enough. I did not need to figure out everything else overnight. I am intentionally exploring on my true path now with my body following freer of anxiety-panic-depression.

An interesting read on this might begin with a book titled A Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl, an internationally renowned psychiatrist who endured unspeakable horror in Nazi death camps, and developed a revolutionary approach to psychotherapy. At the core of his theory is the belief that our search for meaning is our primary motivational force.

I look forward to seeing your own related experiences, comments or questions posted here.

As always, let in your own patience, compassion, love and acceptance for your self no matter where you may find your self on the journey: As I see it, I may choose to change somewhat, but that does not mean I am not divine just the way I am.

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-19-2001).]

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew:
Hi Dolphin:

This is a good point.

I know that this search for meaning is exactly what led me to getting the program. I was 18 when I bought the program, I was just about to graduate from high school. And I had been in dance since I was around 8 years old. Everyone had always told me I was so talented at it, and yet I had realized that, after years of preparation, I didn't want to be a dancer. So, this was a terrifying time in my life. I was about to lose the security and structure of High School, as well as the security of dance class and the dance world. For those who aren't a part of the dance world it's probably hard to understand, but the dance world really is a world unto itself. It was the only world I had ever known, and I was about to lose it. I had a choice to make, keep doing what was familiar and be miserable doing it, or venture into uncharted waters and experience some fear in the process.

Anyway, good post, Dolphin. By the way, I've never read the book you mention, but I have heard a lot of good things about it. Maybe I'll get around to it at some point. The Holocaust is still a really difficult thing for me to read about, however. I have known (as a lot of people have) people who lost family members in the Holocaust.

Talk to you later,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Your decision to listen to your inner voice to let go of dance after high school and seek out your own true path reinforces the whole notion of this thread. How has your �venture into uncharted waters� been working for you? I too had a similar experience graduating from college. It was always assumed I would go to college and get a degree. I just went along with �the program.� I did have some fun and grew in many ways, but I majored in a field I got burned out on by the time I graduated. I felt lost after college graduation about my career path. I also felt a similar sense of loss you mentioned about leaving the structure of school.

Basically, I completed �the program� my parents outlined for me, and more than graduating from college, I was graduating into being my own person. More than ever before it was my responsibility to choose what would be meaningful in my life. I believe such choices continue to crop up as we grow into life, and when we don�t make choices consistent with our true path we may experience the consequences of anxiety panic depression. This theme of choice is addressed well in The Power of Choice by Gregg Liebgold.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by SKYEYES826@aol.com:
Hi Dolphin,

Just a quick note to let you know that I enjoyed reading what you wrote about. I admire people who search for meaning in their lives.

Btw, it's nice to see that you're here again! I was wondering what happened to you! Glad you're here.

Sky

Hi Sky,

Thank you for the warm welcome. It�s very much appreciated. It�s always supportive for someone just to drop in like that. I�m grateful for the kindness of your post. I am curious though about what sense you have of meaningfulness playing a role in your own anxiety-panic-depression?

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-19-2001).]

quote:

Originally posted by MauiGirl:
Dolphin,

I believe you are right when you said that a vast majority of people who suffer from anxiety/panic disorder and depression... at the core of our lives we are searching for the meaning of our Life.

I think each one of us is being called to change ourselves at a core level, because the way we had been living wasn't working. If it was working we wouldn't have this disorder.

Congratulations on your current state of well-being. It is inspiring to know that we all can overcome this disorder when there are examples out there such as yourself.

Keep up the Good Work!

Hi MauiGirl,

Your logic that this is all about being called to change what�s not working is an awesome and succinct observation that seems to escape mostly all of the health care providers who have the audacity to take on patients they�ve labeled as having �Panic Disorder:� A label born out of necessity for insurance purposes, because �A Call to Change� would seem too existentially touchy feely.

In the spirit of the point you raised, I believe anxiety-panic-depression are all primitive messengers when ignored will scream louder, louder and louder until we listen, decipher their message and get It. It being unique to each individual. That�s why others may only guide us from time to time.

I understand your congratulatory words about my well-being, but please be aware that I believe choices involving meaningfulness continue to crop up as we grow into life, and when we don�t make choices consistent with our true path we may experience the consequences of anxiety-panic-depression. The difference I�ll fess up to now is that I count anxiety-panic-depression as blessings that help guide me to my true path. (Yeah, I know a lot of folks aren�t there yet: Read on.)

I enjoyed your posting along with the rest of the good folks in this thread. There aren�t enough of us around with this take on things. Let�s all keep the dialogue rolling on this.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by JBean64:
Dolphin, I think you're right on. I've been talking about this to my therapist. My life didn't have a major event happen, just the opposite, my life became totally boring. My job became very boring and I had too much time on my hands to think. I'd leave work and say "what was the point of that?" I'd go home to an empty house cause I live alone and think "what's the point of coming home to nobody?" My friends became scattered, and I wasn't happy with my lifestyle. The only "fun" I was seeking was out at the bar with friends. After a while of feeling I wasn't contributing to society, feeling so alone, I'm pretty sure that's when my anxiety started. Everyone told me that I should be glad I have a low-stress job, but I felt so much guilt for not having accomplished anything where I spent 10 hours a day, I felt my brain was turning to sponge because I wasn't using it for anything. Well, once you go down the anxiety/ depression road, it's a lot of hard work to pull yourself out. I'm still working on it. I'm trying to do more, there are areas that still need work. It's been a year, I know I need a new job now, but it's scary with this disorder to take the risk. I've tried and done a lot of other things. But having a fulfilling job and having a good relationship are the biggies.

Hi JBean64,

Yes, I�ve experienced that wonderful cry: �What�s the point?� It may seem obvious, but, there are millions of people out there that would find plenty of point and meaning in the very job you have, the relationships you have, etc, etc, etc. The only point that matters is that you don�t.

Now, I�ll reply to your post by going somewhere most in health care wouldn�t dare:

I believe we may have a sense of a unique path that is ours alone to journey and we know it. Ignorance is bliss. And we are no longer ignorant. We are looking into this �Garden of Eden� (or whatever words feel comforting) with awareness, and it may not seem so blissful for a while. But, some have told we return blissfully aware into that Garden, and I�ve already felt it myself from time to time. So this is what health care dares not speak: This may be a spiritual journey, not a psychological one.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by cutufa:
Welcome back Dolphin! I've missed your insight here on the forums.

I agree with your comments. I too have been wondering what's it all for. I know that I'm searching for 'something' and that my life needs this 'something.' However, I'm not sure what this 'something' is. I want to find my path as well and the sooner the better, of course.

I sometimes think that I'm in the beginning stages of what you have described because I'm still not sure it's career, or schooling for what I'm searching. I'm sure too find it though, and look forward to the feeling of accomplishment you and others have obtained.

I don't have the program, so any feedback on my search would be most welcomed.

Hi Cutufa,

Well you surprised me Cutufa: I thought by your confident writing style, positive attitude, and use of jargon that you had been through the program several times over. The AA&D Program really doesn�t directly address what I consider to be at the core of anxiety panic depression. It does offer tools that help greatly with symptoms, but more importantly it offers a foundation for a wonderfully freeing positive attitude for that comes in handy for a search of meaning.

I believe that �feeling of accomplishment� you wrote about others and me obtaining is elusive to say the least. I believe choices involving meaningfulness continue to crop up as we grow into life, and when we don�t make choices consistent with our true path we may experience the consequences of anxiety panic depression. The difference I�ll fess up to now is that I count anxiety-panic-depression as blessings that help guide me to my true path. (Yeah, I know a lot of folks aren�t there yet: Read on.)

I too have experienced, as you have, that feeling of searching for something, yet not being sure about what that something is. That is a path I know well. I suppose you read something about it in my response to Andrew�s post. Some guidance I may offer is not to be afraid to listen to the inner voice and look behind any fear, because that fear may be hiding your true path. This doesn�t necessarily mean meditating a lot in silence waiting for a flash of inspiration. It�s more like being hyper aware of life. (You know, like the hyper awareness of a person with anxiety-panic-depression.) Unfortunately, a lot of the time we don�t like what we discover because it may mean making changes into the unknown: Changes we may not be motivated to accept until forced by anxiety panic depression. One may surely see how anxiety-panic-depression may well be blessings that motivate us toward our true path: If we�d only listen and be open to the true possibilities available to us while being responsible about the consequences. Again, as I mentioned in a previous post, this theme of choice is addressed well in The Power of Choice by Gregg Liebgold. I�d be interested in your thoughts after you�ve read what he has to say and what you�ve heard from your inner voice.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by Lindi:
Hi Dolphin, As for myself, a search for meaning, for a purpose....has always been with me. And even in the most fundamental and existential way, such as "why am i even here". I have come to understand throughout the years, that the 'core' to the panic i have had for so long now, originated at the beginning of my life and only reared it's head when i was pregnant, at 20 years of age. I know that even though i was blessed with many talents and it was obvious to most that i really didn't need to look far in order to see what i ought to be doing with my life....i was unable to apply myself in any serious way to those passions within me. The reason for this inability was a profound (and buried) belief...that i 'couldn't', that i didn't have the patience to 'stick with anything'. I was lacking an essential 'confidence' and where confidence and belief in self SHOULD have resided, there was a hole, a vacuum. Understanding this is invaluable, as i can give this belief in myself TO myself...give myself all the love, time, attention, patience, encouragement, acceptance, etc... that any child deserves. The MEANING, the PURPOSE....is to recognize who and what i REALLY am and to fulfill my soul's purpose.....it can take me anywhere! When doing this, all SORTS of avenues open up. Well, it may 'sound' as if I�m in great shape, evolved, etc... but not so. My wisdom, and the ways I carry on, is still many miles apart! I've been through some psychotherapy, i actually AM a psychotherapist, and STILL have, until now, been unable to help myself with years of Panic Disorder. With this program, i am forgetting all i know for the time being, and simply following the lessons before me, practicing as well as i can. At this time, my meaning is being found in doing this. Yes, Victor Frankl's book inspired me a lot when I read it, some time ago. What a man, huh?? Okay, that's all the space I'll take up. Thanks for your posting and thanks for your reappearance.....i can see that plenty of others here know you from before. God bless, Lindi

Hi Lindi,

Thank you for your warm welcome.

It�s obvious you�ve put a lot of time and energy to get to an understanding of your life. I may well imagine that a search for meaning may have been around during your choice in becoming a psychotherapist.

I believe you�re on to something when you write: �With this program, I am forgetting all I know for the time being, and simply following the lessons before me, practicing as well as I can. At this time, my meaning is being found in doing this.� As you go through the program you may find the key difference is that the traits we all share are presented as gifts when turned outward in a positive way: Something I never felt came across from the health care industrial complex. I won�t rant on about the ridiculous �Panic Disorder� label they came up with: Check out my posting above in response to MauiGirl. I really try not to repeat things over and over in the same thread, so, feel free to respond to any postings to (or from) others.

I think lots of folks may relate to your having a sense of what your passions may be, but feeling less than confident to take even a small step toward expressing any of them. I have a flood of thoughts on this, but I�ll go with a hunch and narrow it all down to one. It�s been my personal experience that when I am truly passionate about something, that true passion overcomes any obstacle: Including upbringing, self-sabotage, etc. If that has not been your experience yet, then I suggest continuing to focus as much on what you�ve been calling your passions as you plan to focus on your confidence (lack of commitment, fear, risk aversion, you name it). In addition, I have a hunch the passions we feel may not be as good a messenger about our true path as anxiety panic depression. (Yea, that�s what I wrote: Passions may be over rated and they�re not to be confused with our true path.)

You especially may find interesting The Power of Choice by Gregg Liebgold.

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-20-2001).]

quote:

Originally posted by cutufa:
Dolphin,

Thanks for your response. Sorry to have misled you into thinking that I'm familiar with all of this. I'm far from it. I'm often told this, particularly at work. I'm thought of as being in control, independent, and full of good advice and answers... That's the public me. The private me is another post all in itself.

I just finished reading the article you suggested by Liebgold. A very inspirational piece indeed. Choices are everywhere and are a part of everyday life. Because I'm afraid of failure, my anxiety also comes from making a choice. Particularly if this choice is of great importance in my life.

"Each choice may have its consequences or sacrifice something else. It is a big responsibility to make healthy and loving choices that will affect yourself and everyone else." Hence, my apprehension and anxiety when making choices.

I read "Life Without Limits" by Bassett. The one thing I learn that has stayed with me is, as she suggests, to listen to one's intuitive feelings and to make decisions based on these. Bassett states that by relying on intuition, and less on others, choices will become easier. This goes hand in hand with becoming our own parachutes and safety nets. Both of which I'm currently practicing.

On another note, the first time I posted here, you were the very first person that replied. Your welcoming words was what kept me tuned, and encouraged me to use these forums as a tool to learn more about anxiety. Not to mention the many great people I've met since. I just wanted to take this opportunity to say thank you

PS: Sorry about the length of this.

Hi Cutufa,

Wow! Was I touched reading how I was the first person on this bulletin board you felt encouragement from, and how you continued on to find other great people. I�m so grateful you took the opportunity to let me know. It felt so very good to hear. You�re so very welcomed.

Yes, I agree with Basset when she suggests in her book �Life Without Limits� to include intuition (or �gut� instinct) in the decision making process. I actually purchased the entire course �Life Without Limits,� and see how it is you especially may have been drawn to read the book. I�ve heard most folks with anxiety panic depression say they believe they have the potential to do just about anything in life, even if they�re not sure what it is. In other words: A life without limits.

I�m glad you got a chance to read some of the writings of Gregg Liebgold and came back here to post your thoughts about what he has to say and what you�ve heard from your inner voice. Interesting to me is how before you had written mostly about not even knowing what that �something� is you�re searching for in your life, but now you�ve related how only apprehension and anxiety surround choices about such things. Some have suggested that potential is one of life�s greatest burdens. Think about that perception. Hum, here�s a question the mind, body, and soul may get blocked by:

What�s the sense of getting in touch with the true path if it means only being burdened by apprehension and anxiety over the choices it will bring?

I encourage you to post some of what you believe is your suppressed potential without concern for now about the choices they may bring, and describe what your world may look like with your potential freed.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by SKYEYES826@aol.com:
Hi Dolphin,

To answer your question about how I've found meaning in my depression/anxiety is simple for me. I haven't yet. I still feel angry, anxious, and confused most of the time. I really don't know what all these emotions are supposed to mean for me at this point.

I don't have the sense of clarity that you do right now, but I hope to. Your words are inspiring for me. I admire and very much respect what you had to say. It was very well said.

I know I can get to that point where you're at, but I guess I just have this big, big, fear of failure and success right now.

Take Care,
Sky

Hi Sky,

First, let me say I believe most everyone with anxiety panic depression starts out just as bewildered and scared, as you seem. I�ll take this opportunity to rant about why I believe people are made to suffer and unnecessarily continue on in this way.

I flat out blame and point the finger at the medical industrial complex for their intentional lack of knowledge and guts about all of this.

Most begin down this path with a visit to the emergency room seeking help for physical symptoms. The malpractice starts there with the wonderful news all vital signs are OK! Go home! Nothing�s wrong! Most times that person in the white coat knows better than that, but lacks the guts to say anything for fear it just may be a serious medical problem and they�ll get nailed for even suggesting anxiety panic depression. In all fairness, I must admit I�ve seen plenty of folks with the perfectionist trait who feel insulted at even the suggestion they may be experiencing anxiety panic depression. But then, a true professional would know how to present their thoughts in a way that would least result in a defensive patient.

OK, so most everyone after years of emergency room visits then comes to realize these symptoms for what they are and aren�t. Turning to the Psych area of the medical industrial complex for help, they�re quickly introduced to drugs by lazy practitioners and cheap insurers who would rather drug people than pay for the benefits of counseling. Many spend years of their lives hooked on these drugs without knowing they are weakening the very coping skills that would serve them well. Popping pills and running away from anxiety panic depression becomes the game plan.

It seems no matter where one turns, including the Midwest Center�s AA&D Program, the focus is all on the symptoms, not what�s behind them. What�s behind them is what this thread of posts is all about. Based upon my experiences, it�s a thread of posts exploring where most will discover their truest answers.

As I suggested to Cutufa, I encourage you to post some of what you believe is your suppressed potential without concern for now about the choices they may bring, and describe what your world may look like with your potential freed.

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by Andrew:
Hi Dolphin:

Those waters have been both glorious and frightening, but at least they have always been interesting. I don't have any regrets about going after what I was really interested in - finding out who I really am.

I think this is probably what most people face at some point in their lives, deciding if they are going to make the jump from being what others want them to be to what they want to be. It is frightening at times, but I believe it is always worth the risk.

By the way, I think I recall you saying that you are an INFJ. Maybe you'd be interested in this thread of mine.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

The fact you even included saying your venture into uncharted waters has been �glorious� is a true indication of the maturity you�re achieving: Maturity in accepting that exploring �uncharted waters� may be frightening and glorious all at the same time. Of course, some things only appear to be �uncharted waters� only because of their newness to us. In most situations there are guides that will appear if we�re open to them. Indeed, even while we ourselves may be guided, we may be in a position to guide others. A person may even consider everyone's posts in this thread to be guideposts.

I followed the link you provided to the topic on INFJs (a career assessment category describing highly intuitive persons.) Yes, I fell into the INFJ career category, and actually came out in the job category of Monk. It was also fascinating to learn, while researching the history of Gay persons, that throughout history Gay persons were held in the highest regard in many, many cultures much like high priests. It�s no wonder I consider myself to be on a spiritual path. (Not to be confused with a �religious� path.) I suppose to some reading this it may seem odd for a Gay-American to be the one on this bulletin board who speaks of being on a spiritual path. But, I trust it�s most clear to those who have viewed the video found through the homepage listed in my Midwest Center Profile.

So there you have it: The spiritual path is my true path.

I find a communion (community) with those sharing my spiritual path to be a wonderful resource. I strongly suggest a lack of communion is behind the pain and anger brought out in the INFJ posts. Have you considered how you may go about creating a communion with other INFJs?

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by MauiGirl:

Dolphin,

I sincerely appreciated your response, clarity and wisdom from a deeper understanding of perhaps "why" we have an anxiety disorder.

My deeper opinion on this subject may appear to most (particularly the medical profession) to be as you stated, "touchy feely".... But, not only do I feel that this is "a call to change", but as you stated above.... I too believe that having this disorder is a Blessing. How many people on this planet are called to change this deeply? I see this disorder as a great opportunity! Illness can be a great teacher, if we but look deep within behind the symptoms to the "cause" - therein lies our answers - and as you stated "our True Path". For us to become well be must become the master of this disorder, rather than it mastering us... and in order to do so we MUST change, our thoughts, beliefs, how we perceive ourselves, how we respond to others, and how we respond to life. I believe... if we so choose to see it as such... we are on the threshold of a totally new way of being. To truly get well, there is no turning back. We have the glorious opportunity to change at our core level, and become better human beings. How awesome is that! And, its not easy, but it can be done.

I agree with what you said, recovered or not... that if we make certain choices that aren't consistent with our True Path, we may indeed experience anxiety, panic or depression as the consequence. For myself I have had this condition all of my life, just in the past two years did it reek havoc in my life, and with my health. This disorder isn't going to magically disappear... I think we will always have to be in a constant state of mindfulness.... checking in with ourselves, being compassionate with ourselves, and be wise with what we have learned from what "doesn't work" in our lives, and doing our best to not repeat it.

I read the article "The Power of choice" by Gregg Liebgold... what an inspiration to be reminded of these fine examples of the persistence of the human spirit and the adversity that they overcame.

You have brought up a great topic, and I have enjoyed reading what everyone has posted. I love it - a group of deep soul searching individuals.

Thanks!

Hi MauiGirl,

One thought roared to mind when you wrote: �For myself I have had this condition all of my life, just in the past two years did it reek havoc in my life, and with my health.�

The thought roared to mind that �it� is you.

I�m not really sure why it�s so common for us humans to so readily disown responsibility for what�s going on with ourselves as if things were visited upon us. I only know I got �better� by taking the huge leap of accepting responsibility for what was going on with me. Instead of talking to or about �it�, I began to talk to and about myself. And, that has made all the difference.

How different do you suppose your perception may be if you were to take ownership of all that was happening?

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by SKYEYES826@aol.com:
Hi Dolphin,
Once again, I agree with what you said. You are a very intelligent human being, and what I admire about you the most is that you speak from experience. I respect that very much.
I remember a therapist I went to awhile back mentioned pretty much the same thing you did about the medical profession, and it's view on panic disorder. He even said docs would rather give you a pill to take rather than deal with the true cause of the problem. He also mentioned that in these times, people have a pill for e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g...
I don't want to give the impression that everyone in health-care is awful because there are good doctors and therapists that do care. I�m lucky enough to have both. Thank God! And sometimes meds. are necessary, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. In my case, it is necessary, and that's ok for now.
Dolphin, thank you for taking the time to respond to me. It�s very much appreciated.
I'd like to ask you something. What motivated you to turn your life around? Did someone inspire you? What was it that you said to yourself to stay consistent?
You're an inspiration and I look forward to your response.
SKY

Hi Sky,

You�re correct: I think it�s best to speak from personal experience. I know it may be difficult to hear, but I would consider personal experience to be key in all of this. In addition, I�ve said it before and I�ll say it again, from personal experience I�ve discovered the key consistent motivator and inspiration is within anxiety panic depression. That�s why I emphasize embracing anxiety panic depression as a blessing instead of running away. Think about it. Anxiety panic depression is your creation. It is you. Listen to it. It�s not something arbitrary that fell out of the sky. The day I decided to own mine is the day my life became very different.

Here�s a simplistic story that may be somewhat beneficial. Keep in mind life choices and anxiety panic depression as you read through:

A person kept slamming their hand in a car door that was not a good fit for them, but they liked the color of the car to the degree they denied the entire problem. With the passage of time, they got a very painful message from their hand, so they went to a doctor and were given drugs �for now� to dull the pain, which also allowed them to continue slamming their hand in the car door pain free. But, even though they may be pain free, their hand weakens in other ways and they begin to realize it may fall off if they continue slamming it in the car door. What motivation, inspiration, someone, or something from outside is needed more than the experience itself for this to end and something different to begin?

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by DTC:
Joseph Campbell is someone who has really inspired me in my search for meaning. I just posted this quote on another topic but thought it was also relevant here.

"Out of perfection nothing can be made. Every process involves breaking something up. The earth must be broken to bring forth life. If the seed does not die, there is no plant. Bread results from the death of wheat...What we are really living for is the experience of life, both the pain and the pleasure...Opportunities to find deeper powers within ourselves come when life seems most challenging. Negativism to the pain and ferocity of life is negativism to life. We are not there until we can say 'yea' to it all. As you proceed through life, following your own path, birds will shit on you. Don't bother to brush it off...Having a sense of humor saves you...Your real duty is to go away from the community to find your bliss...Breaking out is following your bliss pattern, quitting the old place, starting your hero journey...There is no security in following the call to adventure...To refuse the call means stagnation...You enter the forest at the darkest point, where there is no path. Where there is a way or path, it is someone else's path...It is by going down into the abyss that we discover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure. The very cave you are afraid to enter turns out to be the source of what you are looking for. The damned thing in the cave that was so dreaded has become the center. You find the jewel, and it draws you off...The goal is to bring the jewel back to the world...The return is seeing the radiance everywhere. Sri Ramakrishna said: 'Do not seek illumination unless you seek it as a man whose hair is on fire seeks a pond.' If you want the whole thing, the gods will give it to you. But you must be ready for it...A bit of advice given to a young Native American at the time of his initiation: 'As you go the way of live, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think.'"

By the way, this is from "A Joseph Campbell Companion."

Hi DTC,

Thanks for joining in the discussion group. I�ve experienced personal growth as a result of this discussion here. I hope you and anyone else joining in may feel some sense of growth as well.

I understand how it is you may find some inspiration and personal insights through Joseph Campbell�s interpretations of mythology, etc. How have you acted upon these insights to make a meaningful difference in your life, and what has happened with any anxiety panic depression?

~ Dolphin

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quote:

Originally posted by Andrew:
Hi Dolphin:

Well, This is something the INFJ profile mentions, that despite the fact that there are so few of us, we manage to find each other because we have very defined interests. And this has certainly happened on this message board.

But other than the INFJ post I put up, that's about all I have done so far to create some sort of INFJ community. I really like the idea of INFJs talking to each other and supporting each other in daily life, because we are usually the "odd man out."

Talk to you later,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Personally, I don�t buy that INFJ (intuitive types) are the �odd man out.� Historically, INFJ (intuitive types) have been the conscience of society, bellwethers, catalysts and even martyrs, for enlightening change. I have come to understand it�s a path that�s earned, and I agree it may not seem the easiest of paths at times. That�s why the strong suggestion to somehow seek and achieve a sense of communion. As you now say, you�ve heard similar suggestions elsewhere. How many times must you hear it to make it happen? It�s got to be worth more time and effort than a post in cyberspace.

You may want to consider what I�ve done and I continue doing to this day: Gravitate to where others of like mind naturally gravitate. You may want to begin this search by looking over the specific job categories INFJ (intuitive types) like yourself may be found, and more importantly seek out all the places where they may associate. As one example: For me this meant believing there must be a communion somewhere of those who share a similar spiritual path as me, and I actively had to work at seeking them out. I really don�t think the details of anyone�s individual spiritual path are relevant, but you get the idea. It does seem however that many INFJ (intuitive types) may discover their true path is a spiritual one, but how they choose to integrate that into their life may make all the difference as to where they may be found in society. I encourage you to actively seek out others like yourself for communion outside of cyberspace, and see what difference that makes with any anxiety panic depression.

What do you think?

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-20-2001).]

quote:

Originally posted by Terri Kraft:
Woah ... this string to me is really out there ... I'm totally lost. Oh well

Terri Kraft
Langhorne, PA

HI Terri,

I understand and respect where you�re at in all of this. If you have some questions you believe may help clarify something for you, then feel free to post them.

In the meantime, consider this quote from Emerson:

�Tis the good reader that makes the good book; In every book he finds passages which seem to be confidences or asides hidden from all else and unmistakably meant for his ear; The profit of books is according to the sensibility of the reader; the profoundest thought or passion sleeps as in a mine, until it is discovered by an equal mind and heart.

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-20-2001).]