I have throughly enjoyed the AAD class. I can say that in the past couple of weeks I am back to my old self. However I don't want to stay here because that is what got me in trouble in the first place.

But then session 14.

First Lucinda makes no quarms about being divoriced.

You see I've been in a sex starved marriage for the past 15 years. For years I was called all sorts of names and made to feel guilty for wanting sex with my wife. Session 9 of the class was somewhat of a shock, since I realized that I have felt guilty for a disappointing marriage.

Since I can't change my wife. I have to work on me. I've been trying to do this for the past 15 years with little apparent success. The class has helped tremendously but I feel quite stuck on this one. In session 14 Lucinda talks about sexual problems causing stress and how that we should not deprive our spouses of sex. That's fine and dandy but my wife will hear nothing of it. Unfortunately I found out about a year ago that she suffered CSA and sees my sexual desires as abuse. Earlier this year in one of our many fights over this problem I simply broke down and as a result was at my lowest and started experiencing severe anxiety.

Right before the AAD class I had one of the worst bouts with Anxiety, I learned through one of my wife's best friends that this part of the relationship is something that my wife can not give. It was at that point that I realized that I needed to give up any expectation of having a normal marriage. But the problem is sleeping next to my naked wife brings back tormenting feelings of failure and is a constant reminder of the one little small part of my life that has been lacking.

Lucinda Bassett is divorced now? Whoa . . .I hadn't heard of that! She always talked so warmly about her marriage in her books . . .

Matt, I believe Lucinda talks openly about her first marriage ,when she was quite young. Not Her marriage to , I think david, her husband now.

I too live in an almost sexless marriage. It's frustrating.

Stress and anxiety definitely affect sex and I've been there! It sounds like you're taking all the blame? It didn't make sense to me that your wife doesn't want to be intimate but sleeps naked beside you? It sounds like your wife could use some counseling - especially if she was abused. Do you think she'd be willing to consider counseling- or perhaps go with you? If she's had a traumatic past, it isn't something you may be able to "fix" without counseling. Sure sounds like a tough situation.

Sogwap,
I don't know if there's anything for you learn from my mistakes in a similar situation, but I'm hoping it will. Maybe you could share this with your wife or even have her contact me if it would help. I had a wonderful, fun sex-filled marriage to my awesome husband. We had a baby together and everything changed. Suddenly I became a mother and my focus changed. Then my depression and anxiety set in and led to me isolating myself from my husband. It was hard for him especially since we had such a wonderful relationship prior to this. I withdrew more and more. Sex was suddenly more of a stress to me instead of a pleasure. It was like I couldn't feel anything.....I was numb. He begged me to get help. He wanted us to go to counseling. When we did, I couldn't open up and be honest. He talked to friends about it which only pushed me away further because I was so embarrassed. I didn't want to face the fact that I needed help....we needed help. It got so bad in the house he started resorting to name calling, etc. I saw hatred in his eyes and his eyes never lie. It made me scared and I ended up getting a restraining order. One thing led to another and we basically did not communicate at all for a full year while the divorce took place. Everything was through our lawyers. I was still in denial of my part of what was going on. In my head it was all his fault and he was the bad guy. All of the focus was on the legal "game" and it just snowballed into a $40,000 battle. It was the biggest mistake of my life. My focus was on doing everything I could to make sure my daughter was taken care of. I couldn't see that I was losing the man that I love. It's like I was living in a fog. Our divorce was final a couple weeks ago. It breaks my heart to know all of that time, money and energy was wasted on the awful court system. It really is a terrible system. Once I was in it, I felt there was no turning back. Now my husband and I talk and when I look in those honest eyes, I still see love. I remember the passion. It kills me inside. We have both forgiven each other for our mistakes. We both still have a lot of love for each other, but don't know where to turn and what to do. Since we are Catholic, in the eyes of God and the Church we are still married. Civil divorces are not recognized and this gives me hope. If in God's eyes we are still married, it's not too late. We are scheduled for counseling tomorrow. I am doing this program for myself and also going to seek further individual professional help. I guess in sharing my story, I thought maybe you and your wife could see that you need to do whatever it takes to save your marriage. I wish I could turn back the clock, but I can't. I am dealing with the consequences of isolating myself from my husband and denying him the love and passion he deserved. Something you may want to check out: www.retrouvaille.com It is something I wish my husband and I would have gone to BEFORE the divorce happened. It is a retreat for marriages in trouble. It is open to any and all religions. Please check it out. If I can be of ANY help, I am here. I feel like maybe someone else can benefit from the mistakes I've made by sharing my story. I'll have you and your wife in my prayers. Please keep my husband, daughter and I in yours. Take care.

Maybe since you are getting the help you need with this program, you will inspire your wife to get the help that she needs... women are often, way too often, abused as girls and it can cause a tremendous amount of stress and confusion when trying to have a consentual, adult relationship. Often when the abuse is secret and sex in general is not talked about in the home in any healthy manner, it can cause one to see sex as a dirty secret, abusive and disgusting.. none of this is your fault, unless you are the one who abused her as a child you have no business blaming yourself!! This is not a reflection of you, it is her reaction to what happened to her... I was abused as a child and raped as a teenager, it took me years to relax in a healthy sexual relationship with my husband, there are still times when I just can't, if a thought or a memory surfaces, I just can't!! He is so very gentle and understanding... my point is, you cannont blame yourself, nor can you blame her, it is what it is, she didn't ask to be abused and you didn't ask to pay for it, but hopefully with some gentleness and understanding you two can get there...
Peace... Julia

Take comfort. You are not alone with this situation.

I've given up on the whole thing after 10 years of trying everything.

Yes, it doesn't make life a bed of roses.

sogwap, i just read about your sexless marriage. well this is a long story,so i'll leave some of it out.i lost all interest in sex after i became pregnant with our 1st. child. my 2nd (and last)was concieved unplaned while just allowing my husband to have sex with me. i allowed him to have sex for many yrs. i did not want to do it. i still don't, and don't even allow him to touch me. we've been married 43yrs. he was so controlling and verbal abusive, after i became pregnant o hell this is making me angry. i am replused by him. he made me sleep naked. i hated sleeping naked. he trys to puy his hands on me . i hate it. i wasn't asused as a child , but i was a child when we ran away and got married. i was 15 he was 19. i finally got out of the bedroom. haven't slept with him for 25 yrs. i don't have an answer for you. my husband accepted it. i know most wouldn't. but i sure am not going to sleep naked with him or anyone else. kp aka anita

All I can say about this subject is that society certainly puts a lot of pressure on all of us regarding sex. Turn on the television for 1 hour and I'd bet you'll see multiple commercials and programs that will make some kind of reference or portrayal to this subject. Hang out with friends or family long enough and you’ll hear the innuendo be made. Then there are the "sex-perts" on talk shows who give us messages of the importance of a healthy sex life blah blah blah. We all know that sex sells. Buy this deodorant and the opposite sex will run after you! Yeah right! It is as if the messages are telling us that "you should" be out there doing it and that there is something wrong or unhealthy about you if you don't. I have found this pressure to make me feel stressed and pressured on many occasions and feeling resentment at home because some imagined ‘quota’ wasn’t being met. I would also compare my situation with what I perceived other couples as ‘having’ and feel jealousy and resentment. The best I have found to do is to have understanding communications about the subject and to be as supportive as I can be. Same token, there must be mutual respect and compromises made or problems will exist. I learned to change how I viewed sex and also learned to not place so much importance on it relieving myself of a LOT of pressure. Buying into the images and associations that society would like for you to have is tough to overcome but very liberating. And, while I wear deodorant (thankfully I wear what I choose to wear and not what ‘they’ say I ‘should’ wear. I really don’t have much for advice for you except to strongly suggest you try some therapy about this to help redirect your situation. Best of luck to you.

Most people think that the lack of sexual intimacy in marriage is mostly a problem for men. I am part of the Ezboard "Sexless Marriage Support Forum" which consist of about 60% woman. Almost everyone there (men and women) suffer from low self esteem as a result of living in a sexless marriage. Most live in secret shame and have never told anyone except for possibly a couple of their closest friends or relatives. After living in torment for over 15 years of this I've gone public.

Here is a reply post on popular Christian marriage forum from a woman going through this that describes one aspect of living in a passionless marriage.

quote:

Practical suggestions like schooling and exercise are wonderful, but I can tell you from firsthand experience NOTHING is a substitute for sex in marriage. All doing things on my own does is cause us to grow further apart and even less interested in each other.

There is NO substitute for the intimacy I lack. NONE.
A counselor can not solve that.

PS
I'd like to add that I don't think rehashing this on a weekly basis with another man (a counselor), in person, would be easy or healthy for me. It certainly would not be pleasant.
And I can't imagine discussing this, in person, with another woman who does NOT know firsthand how it feels. I would NOT subject myself to that.

I am asuming this is not a phisical dissability, in any case, I would recomend a program I have tried, "Rock Solid Marriage" by Jimmy Evans. I have benn using it now 2 years change is not over night. My husband was raised in a sexless marriage, ours is not but he is totaly not intimatet yet, He is learning intercorse is not the only way to say I love you. I have just read a small book "Sexual Fulfillment in Marriage" by Jimmy Evans, it helps to explain what a woman needs, and what a man needs, to bring about intimacy in each other. it is a very small book, so I intend to read it to my husband the next time we get in a car, together, I find that is the best place to get his attention. we have miles of roads out here without cars, it is an hour to the grocery store, and believe me it is loanly when your marriage has no comunication. I also use the CD's from Rock Solid Marriage you get one a month, this same way when he has no distractions. I certainly understand running, I have been president of every organization in this county at one time or another, and mother of the year, but now the kids are gone, and I am tired of running other peoples business, I simply told him, I am loanly and if the next 30 years is any thing like the last 30 I quit. Before that I had asked and tried to purswad him to go to some type of comunication class with me, or couceling. NO NO No is all I heard but the Rock Solid Marriage CD's in our private space with just the 2 of us listening has done the trick. We are so much more happy, and he has a guide line to go by. Like I said he was raised in a sexless marriage never even dated a girl, untill he was 20 in the USMC. He thought I didn't love him if I didn't get out of bed and make his breakfast at 4;30. I am not a morning person, and he is not a talkative person, but we are trying to satisfy each other now. I will pray for you!

Hello friend Before I begin, let me state that I wish you good fortune in the immediate and long-term future in regards to this matter. What follows, is just my two cents.

Now, I'm curious friend, but have you considered divorce? I'm sure you have, and that you are probably just throwing out a "fishing line", so to speak, to avoid doing so after having invested so much time, but it is a viable option friend.

I admit, I've never been married, but I have been in a long term relationship with a woman (5 years monagamous, 3 years off and on), and have lived as a married man lives for 3 of those monagamous years. In the 5th monagamous year, I decided that to go on in a virtually sexless relationship (at that point) would be pointless, and not in my best interest, despite the fact that I loved her and that she wanted to have my children.

You have to ask yourself, what would you, individually, gain by continuing on? What would be the return on your investment of even more love, care, time and attention up to this point?

If this were about stocks, and you followed the "buy and hold" advice, would you be happy overall with this 15 year period? What about the next 15?

Sex is important. Period. Continuing to fulfill another's needs while not being fulfilled, well, I know you get the idea. You've even went so far as to work on yourself, when you weren't even the problem, and in fact, this situation has created problems for you.

Look, I know you love her, but I figure you probably have realized that staying within current conditions for the forseeable future (and visible past) would negatively affect your quality of life in this area, for the rest of your life. That's a long time.

I also figure that at this point you've also realised that you are the only one looking after you in this two-party equation, and that you are the only one who even cares.

I suggest divorcing her at this point. That would ease your stress, but it would also introduce a new one: dating, lol! I must say though, dating is a much more pleasurable stress, overall, than "nothing". Sure, I'm also leaving out the "grieving period" (for lack of a better phrase), but eventually, it will pass, especially if you keep yourself occupied with new, wonderful, different, women.

Just my two cents.

-NuNes

P.S.

Congratulations on going public!

quote:

Originally posted by NuNes:
Hello friend Before I begin, let me state that I wish you good fortune in the immediate and long-term future in regards to this matter. What follows, is just my two cents.

Now, I'm curious friend, but have you considered divorce? I'm sure you have, and that you are probably just throwing out a "fishing line", so to speak, to avoid doing so after having invested so much time, but it is a viable option friend.

I admit, I've never been married, but I have been in a long term relationship with a woman (5 years monagamous, 3 years off and on), and have lived as a married man lives for 3 of those monagamous years. In the 5th monagamous year, I decided that to go on in a virtually sexless relationship (at that point) would be pointless, and not in my best interest, despite the fact that I loved her and that she wanted to have my children.

You have to ask yourself, what would you, individually, gain by continuing on? What would be the return on your investment of even more love, care, time and attention up to this point?

If this were about stocks, and you followed the "buy and hold" advice, would you be happy overall with this 15 year period? What about the next 15?

Sex is important. Period. Continuing to fulfill another's needs while not being fulfilled, well, I know you get the idea. You've even went so far as to work on yourself, when you weren't even the problem, and in fact, this situation has created problems for you.

Look, I know you love her, but I figure you probably have realized that staying within current conditions for the forseeable future (and visible past) would negatively affect your quality of life in this area, for the rest of your life. That's a long time.

I also figure that at this point you've also realised that you are the only one looking after you in this two-party equation, and that you are the only one who even cares.

I suggest divorcing her at this point. That would ease your stress, but it would also introduce a new one: dating, lol! I must say though, dating is a much more pleasurable stress, overall, than "nothing". Sure, I'm also leaving out the "grieving period" (for lack of a better phrase), but eventually, it will pass, especially if you keep yourself occupied with new, wonderful, different, women.

Just my two cents.

-NuNes

P.S.

Congratulations on going public!

this post hits a bad spot in my heart. I hope you remain single if this is your view of marriage. The vows we make are "till death do us part", not "a sexless marriage do we part". Marriage isn't 50/50, its 100% on both parts for it to be sucessful. To just casually tell someone to get a divorce because he is in the "not getting it" club is totally rediculous!

This woman has been abused. Now, Sogwap has not told us if she is recieving counceling or not. He has just told us his part of the story. We all know it is never just one persons fault. These things need to be taking into consideration.

Sogwap, what have you done to help your spouse deal with her past, other than make her feel like crap for not delivering "the goods"? Have you tried to met her emotional needs so that she can feel connected to you before you try to jump her bones? The one thing I definetly do agree with you is that she should NOT be tempting you by sleeping naked if you doesn't want sex. That is plain stupid.

I guess my point is there is soooo many things going on in a case like this that you need the help of someone who is not connected to the situation who can be objective. You both can't.

To just throw away all the years you've had together is ludicris. I can't urge you enough to GET HELP!!
It is not in Gods Will for anyone to divorce. Unless there is physical abuse or infidelity you owe it to each other to try.

Sweet
________________________________________________

sweet,
i totaly agree with what you said in your posts...in sickness and in health...i like to add through thick and thin....sometimes the other one is depressed or has anxiety as does the other one.. i wish you the best. hang in there.if you were through you would not be asking for advice..our thoughts and prayers are with you....GOD BLESS...
don