I was thinking today about this tape. As I listed to this tape, I noticed how Lucinda said that this lesson is the one of the most complicated and hardest to understand and yet, I look at the number of discussions in this folder and I have to wonder why everyone isn't talking about it ??? Avoidance??? Maybe.

So here, I am opening a conversation here for those willing to talk about change and secondary gains. And hoping that people will open up about the real reasons they hold onto their anxiety and/or depression.

Has anyone else come to realize WHY they hold onto their anxiety and/or depression?

Lucinda goes on to say that WE are totally responsible for our own happiness and WE are the ONLY ones that can actually get ourselves totally over problems with anxiety and depression. She goes on to say that NOONE else holds the power!!!!

She says that people get something positive from negative behavior and I completely agree with the fact that most of the people that are still "stuck" in their struggle with anxiety/depression is because they REFUSE to change.

So ask yourself..what is your secondary gain?

Let's talk about it.....

Great topic Sunset-One of my secondary gains was it was my excuse to not go forward. I found it easier so I thought to go in circles than to change my way of thinking-I thought that by always trying to figure things out I would be in control and not get hurt. Wrong I was-do not do that anymore. I had to understand everything with human behaviour. That is quite funny to me now as many do not understand themselves so how could I.At first it is so hard to believe that we get something out of all the anxiety and panic that we alone create with our thoughts whether it be fear of failure, fear of going forward and the list goes on as there are just so many secondary gains!! Have a Great Day Timber

Awesome idea timber! Learning my secondary gains has been vital in my recovery (which is ongoing). Here were some of mine:
~no risk of rejection
~no risk of embarassment or "failure"
~not having to face my scary issues
~feeling justified because of the pain I had been through this far
~feeling painful but "safe" in my comfort zone
~not having to stand up for MY OWN opinions and decide what I REALLY believe as opposed to what I "should" believe

These are just a few and are not necessarily rational. A little not to those that have been in recovery for years and years and have made little to no gain: it's time to face those issues and fears head on.
I have been in recovery for a year and a half. It has been hard and challenging and frustrating and bittersweet. I have been making baby steps though all along the way. Something my therapist reminded me the other day is that I will never be "completely" ready to try new and scary things. That's not realistic.
I look forward to further discussion with this because I realize that I am still holding on to some of my "reasons."

Thanks guys for your additions to this topic! It's greatly appreciated!!

I am happy to know that there are others out there that are aware of their secondary gains with anxiety and/or depression. It's a very hard topic to discuss, probably because for people to admit there is something they are getting from their anxiety/depression would mean they could actually DO something about their recovery. This is very scary for many people to face and many are just not ready to face this one.

As for me, I know exactly what my secondary gain is. I believe it's "fear of failure and embarrassment". One thing I noticed about myself is that I have a very large tendency to avoid things that I am not 100% sure I can accomplish successfully. I am very much a perfectionist and yet very scared of doing those things I sincerely want to do for myself. I have let myself down alot in my teen years. Although I didn't give it my "all", I didn't believe enough in myself to do much of anything at all, except the things I considered easy which were the things I was already good at.
School wasn't really one of my "best" areas. I struggled not only because my parents were having difficulty and I couldn't concentrate but I had no interest in doing my best. Now that I am older, I want to take college courses so I can better myself and my education and yet I find myself terrified because I am afraid of "losing". Afraid of the big "What If"...like "what if I go back to school and don't do well? What if I put all my money into school and I fail? What if I look stupid? What if it doesn't work out?"...more than anything, I am afraid of wasting money on myself and feeling the guilt if I don't do well.

Being a mom is something I am good at! I have 3 wonderful children. I am also a great homemaker and cook. These are the things that are easy for me and unchallenging and FAIL PROOF ! ( I am sure this is an area where someone is afraid to fail at...perhaps someone that is considering having children and avoids this idea because of their own fear of failure).....but this is "SAFE" for me.

I am coming to the point where I need to make some serious decisions about my life and "what I want to be when I grow up"..... ( I am 35 years old and I still feel like I am trying to find my "place")......I believe that in order to find full recovery for me, I need to face my fears by going back to school. Not because I need to prove anything to myself but because I want to learn something new for myself. I believe by doing this, I will build my self-esteem. At the same time, I need to be good to myself and forgive myself for being less than perfect.

My secondary gains are my excuse not to try!!

I am learning that there are secondary gains to anything you avoid doing out of "fear".
Ask yourself, when you find yourself avoiding something, "why do I want to avoid this? What is the real reason I don't want to do this? Are those reasons realistic?" if not then I know I need to push myself through no matter the outcome.

Sunset:
I have the same fear as you- failure and embarrassment; and also rejection.
I don't think you will have a problem with taking college courses. In fact those that are perfectionists (I am too! ), if anything, over do it when it comes to college (like studying too hard, taking on too much, etc.) I am probably one of the best at "what-ifing" . I thought I would fail a test and then the everything would just snowball after that. Well it never happened!! In fact I graduated with top honors, so if anything I pushed myself too hard!! So my advice is to have a plan ahead of time on how you will deal with your perfectionism, so you don't drive yourself crazy . College is tough but you will be so happy you did it. I learned a lot!

Hey sunset. I'm actually in college right now. I am 19. I came with my full blown anxiety, had to withdraw first semester and failed to pass only 2 course second semester. Be comforted, I came out of last semester with about a 3.o! I have learned to enjoy my classes. I love to ask questions and spend time with my professors and brainstorm about interesting topics that come to mind. You really encourage me. To know that you are searching for your "meaning" and that you still believe in yourself is of great comfort to me. I lack many pos role models and so it is so refreshing to see this. It is hard for people, even my therapist, to really relate to where I am. I dont think that you can relate unless the experience is fresh on your mind! I am mostly over anxiety and have alot of self-esteem development to do. You can totally make it through school. I see people like you in my classes all the time. Remember to just relax and to try. It's an awesome feeling when you do somethin for yourself.

Thanks for the encouragement Amethyst and Josepca!

I believe I can do it but I believe also that I may have to endure some scary feelings along the way.

Almost all my children are in school full time. My youngest only has half day Kindergarten. Next year, I will have alot of time on my hands for the first time in many, many years ( probably 11 years ).....I think I am really going to make the best of this time by taking classes and doing something good for myself. I haven't made a firm decision yet what it will be, eventually I will.

Change is always hard and many times uncomfortable. I honestly do not want to numb my emotions to make it any easier either. I want to be able to feel all those feelings ( fear, excitement, etc.)

About 3 years ago, I had my own home daycare business. I went to school, got my food licence, CPR certification, went to all the necessary meetings. I'll never forget my first day in this class; the teacher had us all sitting in a circle and we all had to introduce ourselves and tell eachother why we wanted to do home daycare. I'll never forget the way my heart raced and my face became numb right before it was my turn and that thought "just LEAVE the building" came into my mind. I quickly told myself "NO WAY" and before I knew it, I was sharing about myself and my desires to have a home daycare. I felt so relieved when my turn was over and I never felt that way again the entire course. ( even with doing CPR in front of everyone on the floor with a dummy). Public speaking is not something I love to do but I made it through that experience and I was stronger for it.

I believe going back to school will be similar.

I believe in myself and my abilities, now I just have to DO IT!

I believe life would get boring without challenges like these.

My secondary gain from holding onto my anxiety and depression is fear of success.

I'm afraid I'll get better. I'm afraid I'll be just where I should be if I complete this program: more confident, less dependent on others for my own emotional well being, less stressed out, feeling healthier, being more active.

I'm also afraid that I'll put up all this effort, knowing that even if I accomplish success, life still sucks, taxes still need to be paid, hearts get broken, etc.

I also know that by staying this way, I feel that eventually I'll get a lot of the sympathy and love I never got as a child. I also know I can use it as an excuse to avoid responsibility.

And, I think most of all, I'm afraid that if I do succeed, I'll have to admit to everyone that there never was anything wrong with me medically, that I was just abusing everybody to get the attention I want, but don't worry about or get angry about because I'm better now! So I"m afraid I'll find out this is all just a silly game I've been playing, and if the people who are supporting me financially through these tough times find out it's just been a silly game, I'll have a lot of doors slammed in my face.

My secondary gain, is if i dont move on then I can stay in my "safe place" and never be "vulnerable" to attack by anyone.

My secondary gain by staining in this condition is -I won't let myself down..Just like someone else said, If I don't try and I stay where I am then I can never get disappointed by what should have happened but never did. I am afraid if I make all this effort to try to recover and it never happens then there is no hope at all to get better. I don't want that feeling of hopelessness..I want to feel alive and like there is hope...But one of my big fears is that there is no hope...But I will continue to go on..B/C I want to get better...Good Topic

Susan,
I have often asked myself why I am doing this to myself.
I am not sure what it is that I am avoiding, but it must be true, because I know that I am doing it to myself. But why?
All I can say is that it has always seemed that my anxiety has to do with God. You already know that. I don't have a great marriage. Its okay, but not much connecting. But then again, I have always expected too much.
My wife is convinced that the whole reason for my anxiety is guilt from religious beliefs that I have to be perfect. So am I using anxiety to avoid expressing my true feelings? To avoid being honest about how I feel about God? Or about faith issues? Or maybe I feel bad because there are many things in life that I haven't done, and maybe I don't want to deal with that.
I don't know. But I do know that I am really getting sick of this anxiety.
My older sister, who has also suffered with anxiety, once told me that when I get really, really sick of it, I will stop making myself anxious.
I pray for that day to come.

Thief,

When I told my dad that I was going through a relapse of anxiety he said "STOP doing that!!"
LOL

I've been feeling much more anxiety now that I've been facing my fears. Working through those feelings and thoughts are all part of recovery.

I know you are sick of your anxiety. I have my days when I am less tolerant and I've even become angry at times. But you just keep moving meanwhile telling yourself the "truth" about your anxiety. Eventually your brain will listen!

I always remember when I was about 18 and I went to live with my older sister to get away from my non understanding parents. I was going through anxiety at the time.
My dad said, "I know what you need...you need to go work out in the fields".
Today I concentrated on what the Dr. said about the enemy, and I read the Word and "drew close to God". I am thinking that my "double mindedness" has been a real problem, so I am going to stay in the Word and try to start seeing myself as God sees me.
I bought a book today at the christian bookstore called, "Telling yourself the Truth", which goes along with the program and with the Dr's words.
Thanks again for your words of encouragement.....
I will always consider you very instrumental to my recovery.
Joe

Hi Joe,

I think this doctor of yours is great! My Christian psychologist told me to get a book called "Learning to tell myself the truth" by William Backus. It helped me alot.

I hope you are well today and you find peace throughout your day!!

God bless you as your move forward!

Susan,
This book is also written by William Backus and Marie Chapian.
You know what has really blessed me since I got this book?
Last night before going to bed, I wanted to read, but I actually desired to read the bible more than this book!!!
What a miracle!
This morning I went to work, and here I am on the freeway at 4 am, and I was just praying for others, and I felt the Lord's presence so strongly, and I felt so overwhelmed by all the suffering these people were going through, that I started sobbing uncontrollably. It was like the Lord was allowing me to see what He sees.
His presence, peace and love were overwhelming.
When I got to my first stop, I wrote down what came to my mind. I wrote..."Jesus spoke to me today. He showered so much love on me that I sobbed uncontrollably on the freeway at 4 am.
I kept praying for others, and I felt overwhelmed with the pain of others. I touched the heart of Jesus. All healing comes from the loving touch of Jesus, my Savior and Lord."
Sorry this isn't in the spirituality folder, but I got on a roll!
Thanks, Joe