I honestly believe some day, the psycological & medical field will look back & wonder what they were thinking by giving people with Panic Disorder anti-depressants.
I've been put on over 10 different anti-depressant medications & I have freaked out after taking all of them. The only medication that has worked for me has been Xanax. Is it just me? It seems like anti-depressants cause soooo many side effects. And then when I've been put on anti-depressants they want me to take Xanax as well! What's the point of taking both drugs when 1 of them is working fine? Anyway, I guess I'm just ranting. I'm frustrated because I just had an appointment with a new shrink who wanted to try me on more anti-depressants. I declined.

I think the two disorders overlap so much that they assume they can take care of one and that will improve both. What I was told by a Dr is this....if you are primary depression/secondary anxiety, they will really help you immensely. Many people are this combo and don't even realize it, since they didn't really take notice until the had a bell ringin' PANIC ATTACK!

The people that seem to have trouble on AD's are usually primary anxiety/secondary depression. In this combo, taking care of the anxiety will usually take away the depression as well.

This is just his theory..I find from my own experience that it seems likely to be true. I couldn't tolerate any ADs that I tried at all...I actually got more panicky and had more attacks on them.

A friend of mine was always depressed and then began having attacks...celexa and serzone have changed her life..no depression OR anxiety now. I guess we are all made up different. I do understand your frustration, as every DR I see is always trying to pill push an AD on me....NO THANKS!..LOL

quote:

Originally posted by WhataboutBob:
What's the point of taking both drugs when 1 of them is working fine?

Hi WhataboutBob,

I love this topic, because I love exposing illusions. OK, I�m being way too pleasing: I love exposing LIES.

If you�re able to befriend a �medical professional� and loosen them up with enough booze to get them talking, they may more honestly confide in you how they�re scared to death of the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency.) The DEA polices how they prescribe drugs and especially highly addictive benzodiazepine (Xanax, Ativan, etc.) �Doctors" and �Psychiatrists� are losing their licenses every day for mistreating patients with benzodiazepine. Therefore, �medical professionals� are frightened prescribing benzodiazepine and are anxious to transition off it by pushing �antidepressants� onto patients because they�re not considered addictive or high risk for trafficking abuse by the DEA. Truth be told, it is the �side effects� you complain about that they�re relying on to control your anxiety-panic. How much anxiety-panic are you going to be aware of while drugged out of your mind by an �antidepressant� to the point of sexual dysfunction?

It�s true that mostly all patients start out thinking benzodiazepine �works fine.� But, what most don�t know is how at ANY time without ANY warning ALL benzodiazepine WILL totally stop working! When this starts happening (and it WILL happen: It�s just a matter of time) you�ll RAPIDLY need to take more and more and more of the drug just to get the same effect you�ve come to know and love, until SUDDENLY no amount of benzodiazepine will work except the amount that will kill you. It all starts spiraling out of control without warning and rapidly turns ugly with shocking speed. This is the �addiction� the DEA works to prevent.

DEA agents are truly our angels in all of this. They know from ugly experience how benzodiazepine has destroyed lives, and they�re trying as best they can to better ensure it doesn�t destroy ours. I don�t blame them for the �therapists� who'd rather drug a patient than meet their need for more personalized attention. And, I don�t blame �therapists� for the insurers who�d rather drug people out of their minds than pay for the benefits of more personalized therapy. And, I don�t blame insurers for the employers who�d rather increase their profits than increase their insurance premiums. And, I don�t blame employers for a society that's growing through �survival of the fittest.� And, I don�t blame society for growing in a way that is no less a blessing than anxiety-panic-depression.

I'm grateful: Mostly all of us sooner or later find The Midwest Center Program and other programs like it offer more hope for growth and feeling better nowadays than mistreatment at the hands of licensed drug-pushers.

In addition, many have written on the forum in a way that suggests there is something wrong with themselves for not being able to find relief from �depression� in an �antidepressant� drug. The truth is, it�s not about what�s wrong with you: It�s about what�s wrong with the drugs that are being pushed on you.

The Life Extension Foundation reports: �Pills are not the panaceas we've been led to believe they are. Studies have shown that drugs are of no value in treating about 33% of depression cases. In another 33% of cases, the drugs were only a little more effective than placebos (sugar pills.)� A large number of the rest are literally so drugged out of their mind it's impossible to know if they're truly being �helped.�

If a pill was truly the answer to any of this, don�t you think we�d all be taking it?

~ Dolphin

[This message has been edited by Dolphin (edited 12-19-2001).]

I AGREE WITH DOLPHIN

I totally agree with Dolphin's statement about a pill not being "the answer," but I do believe that for some people, medication CAN be helpful, not as a long-term solution but as a way to get grounded, emotionally, so that they can begin to see their anxiety and depression in a more reasonable light and make changes in their lives once and for all.

I truly believe what Lucinda says in one of her early coaching videos about medication being a Band-Aid for a deeper, underlying problem. I fought taking medication for YEARS. My doctors had given me Ativan, and I had many a full-blown panic attack because I refused to take it. I learned to control the panic attacks on my own, but never dealt with my generalized anxiety. Finally, over the past few months, my anxiety slowly got to the point that I became very depressed and hopeless. I literally felt like I was living in a black cloud. This past week, I started taking a (very!) low dose of Paxil, as well as starting the program.

Paxil, for me, is a temporary fix and I know this. But I'm feeling the effects of it already, and feel that I can now focus more positively on the program. After a couple of months, I will come off the Paxil, and by then I will have started attacking the root of the problem, using the valuable information I learn in the program.

Don't get me wrong; medication is NOT for everyone, and I don't approve of the way anti-depressants are over-prescribed. But if you're on the correct dosage and medication, you won't be "drugged out of your mind"---you're just more able to handle your emotions, and some of us need that solid ground to start from. It was a huge relief for me to hear Lucinda say on Session 2 that some people have to take drugs, and "...if you do, don't beat yourself up over it!"

True, there are some very addictive drugs out there. There are tons of people who are on antidepressants who probably don't need to be. But please don't be so negative about those of us who ARE making positive changes in our lives (such as using the program!) but also need to take meds to balance us out a little. I am not "drugged out of my mind." Today I felt more positive and energetic than I have in a long time, partly because of starting the program, and, yes, partly because of the Paxil. I believe truly attacking anxiety is all about finding what works for you on an individual basis, and giving it all you've got!

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"Ain't it crazy?
For a moment there, I just gave up trying
But now I see you can let the light in
You can begin again
Ain't it crazy?"
-Melissa Etheridge
"Heal Me"

Well, I am torn by Dolphin's post.

I have been on Xanax for 15 years. I had no idea it was addictive when I started it (I don't think anyone did) and it was intended for 6 months. Here I am 15 years later! It is very true that Xanax does build up and you need more gradually to do the same thing. I am on a dose where, when I tell people, they gasp but to me it isn't doing what it used to do. I will NOT go further up although I guess many are on higher doses. Still, Xanax saved my life. I don't know if I would be here today if I had not taken it when I did. I have been able to go from agoraphobic to working in a very high profile, high stress career, flying, cruising (and I am terrified of deep water and no land around me), huge buildings, meeting high profile people, traveling with people I barely knew, etc. I truly believe Xanax helped me through it all. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a "crutch" if you need one.

However, now that the Xanax seems to have levled off and I won't go higher, doctors want to put me on an antidepressant and get me off the Xanax. I don't want an antidepressant because no matter what people say, the withdrawl is hard to deal with and some have very serious problems getting off the drugs. Plus the side effects sound horrible.

I do think doctors are trying to help. They know what they read, they read that certain AD's are also santioned for PAD and GAD and they have sucesses on them. So...they try to help with what they know works for some.

If it is true that we have an imbalance of seratonin, how can we possibly "learn" to have a balance? I can't "learn" to have more thyroid hormone so I take thyroid hormone replacement.

I am so torn about this whole issue. If I have something I can't fix myself then I should be on medicine which gives me what I am lacking. But am I lacking something or not?

No one has a firm answer for me. Some say I can learn to be "normal" through practice etc and I agree that a lot of what we do can be "unlearned." Others say we need the medication to level out the seratonin and other hormones in our brains.

I would hate to think I am working so hard at getting better only to find that I CAN'T no matter what because I have a chemical imbalance.

Although I did all the the things I said above, it should be noted that I always had anxiety and still had panic attacks -- I just dealt with things differently and the Xanax stopped the big attacks from escalating and allowed me to go on with my life. But never was I "free" from anxiety and fears of crowds, walking long distances, driving etc.

So what IS the answer? I want to just be NORMAL. To just have fun, go places and do things without working so so so hard at it all the time.

I am doing the program, on tape 2, so far I haven't heard anything I don't know (being anxious since 5 years old, I have learned a LOT!!)but I have made a promise to myself to do relaxation and to do the tapes, journal etc and if I don't get better on the program, I will take a dang antidepressant and see if that actually will free me of the chains that bind me.

I wish I knew which school of thought is the right school of thought. All I know is life should not be this hard for us.

Patty


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Life is only therapy: Real expensive and no guarantees.

THANK YOU BOB

I am so frustrated with MDs, too. anti "depressants" drugs for depression....
anti "anxiety" drugs for anxiety.

Why do we have to tolerate the side effects of drugs that don't get rid of panic because doctors don't want to prescribe the correct drug.

If I hear another "professional" repeat the rhetoric about how addictive Xanax is I will scream. No I won't cause they keep saying it.

My sister-in-law is a shrink and she said it again last week to me.

I asked her why it is any different from a diebetic needing insulin daily and she spouted off that same ole crap. "I've seen patients addicted.

Why does an increase in Xanax=addiction, but any other drug family it doesn't?


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Always Hopeful, Betsy H.
Marietta, GA (East Cobb)
Get out and walk...five minutes today, six minutes tomorrow...until you work your way up to 30-45 minutes and day and see how much better you feel in just a few weeks.

[This message has been edited by EastCobbGABetsyH (edited 12-12-2001).]

I agree Betsy. My issues for the Xanax case is first of all the absolutely most addictive drug on the planet is nicotine & anyone can go out & get themselves addicted at anytime. Not to mention nicotine in the form of cigs, cigars or chew...Will KILL you.
I think it is really sad that people who abuse xanax make it hard for the responsible people. I take the drug just as needed basically to avoid becoming housebound. I don't care if I'm "addicted" to xanax, it should be my choice. Because of my 'addiction' I am able to continue to go to work, pay my bills & keep my house. A small price to pay in my opinion. I've got one more story....My 90 year old grandmother had terminal cancer & in the last stages of the illness her MD wouldn't put her on Morphine because she might get "addicted". Give me a friggin break! We found her an MD who actually had a heart & thankfully she died comfortably.

I saw a show on PBS this year talking about Morphine and what you mentioned.

Studies are now showing that we heal faster when we are not in pain.

It was awful to see how family members believe that if a patient is in pain in the final stages of a terminal illness that the patient is beleived to be fighting the disease. Then, if the patient takes pain medicine that knock them out (of their misery), families believe they have given up the fight. How sick is that?

I tend to beleive from my own experience that taking enough Xanax gets rid of panic attacks enough that we can go out and live. The more good experiences we have, while being panic-free, the more chance that our brains can be re-programmed into knowing what it feels like to be panic-free.

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Always Hopeful, Betsy H.
Marietta, GA (East Cobb)
Get out and walk...five minutes today, six minutes tomorrow...until you work your way up to 30-45 minutes and day and see how much better you feel in just a few weeks.

[This message has been edited by EastCobbGABetsyH (edited 12-12-2001).]