Hello everyone,

I am new to this board I have just purchase this program and so far it has helped however I find it hard to relate to alot of what Lucinda Bassett talks about because I am only 20 Year old male from Toronto. She sort of directs the more older crowd and more Adult kind of lifestyle ... ie. Kids, Wife, Husband Etc .... Anyhow I have overcome the whole panic attack situation I am not afraid nor do I have them anymore ... I used to take Paxil 20mgs a day but stopped it for the last 2 months and I feel alot better than I did on it ... I just cant get rid of two things ... Wondering if anyone can relate to me ... 1) Derealization - Floating throughout the day increase and decreasing in severity .... 2) Obsessive thoughts that I am developing some sort of Mental Illness like BIpolar or Schizophrenia .. I have become so obsessed about this that I research on the internet all day long to know the symptoms so I can catch myself when it happens ... I know it probably wont cause for generations in my family nobody has ever had any sort of Mental ilness ... or even emotional illness like depression etc .... I am scared by thinking to much I will end up crazy ... is that possible? ... is thinking to much about it bad? ... I am such a mess with this thought ... Does anyone else have this fear ... that any day they will loose it and snap and have some sort of a pyschotic breakdown? ... I am just sooo scared I just want to be normal and have normal thoughts ... please if anyone can help I would appreciate that ....


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SACHIN

PanicManSach,

You wouldnt believe how much enthusiam I have, just to respond to your post. First let me say this for the record and hopefully for your comfort...You are not crazy nor are you ever going to go crazy. The reason why I know this for a fact and can promise you this is because just two months ago I dropped a thread that looked exactly like yours. I mean every thing from the fears to the two main concerns. I have the exact same phobia, and believe me it isnt and easy one to have. Everyone who will reply to your post will be able to gurantee that you will not go crazy and the only reason why you think such a thing is because of your anxiety. Believe me I know.

Do me and your self a favor, stay off the internet looking up the symptoms for mental illness. If you havent already done this, it is only going to make the situation worse. Because you will spend most of your day watching your self vigilantly to see if you have any symptoms. With anxiety, you can honestly make yourself believe you have a symptom when you are no where close to ever having an illness like those. Anxiety makes irrational fears seem so true and convincing, and they are no where near the truth.

The Depersonalization feeling will go away, I promise. One of the fast methods I used was breathing exercises, physical exercise, and to accept it for now. NO it is not harmful, it is just a temporary relaxation response your brain does when it is in stress hyperdrive. That is how Lucinda puts it. The obsessive thoughts are scary, I know where you are coming from. I battle with those to this day. But I wish I knew then what I know now, cause the thoughts I had before was so stupid I dont even think to much about it. Alot of rest will take some of the fear away from the thoughts. Right now I know it is hard to separate the fear from the thought but as you relax and let the thoughts come and go you will find out that they are only THOUGHTS and nothing more. Yes they might be around just for a little while but trust me they do die down until you barely remember them anymore. All in time. All in time. Try to be patient as possible, something us anxiety sufferes find it hard to do. And try to relax every day, now is a time to baby yourself.

You are probably experiencing some strange things with your emotions and thoughts, it is normal. You only need to float pass these wierd feelings cause they do go away in minutes sometimes a hour or two. But it is not permanent. Like Lucinda said this anxiety is not terminal, it does get better as you go throught the program and implement some of the skills. Gradual process.....

Much love from some one who can relate deeply.....SaSa

PS. Feel free to e-mail me if you want.

Thank you sooo much for responding I feel so much better . Its comforting to know that this fear is shared by others as well. I dont know why I have such a horrible fear and how every other minuite I am thinking about it ... I think about it soo much sometimes I am scared to drive myself to insanity ... With the derealization and depersonalization feelings sometimes it feels like I am already pyschotic or something ... I know its sounds wierd but I am just sooo afraid I just want to live a normal mentally stable and healthy life ... My fear about disorders and mental illness is sooo deep when I research them I sometimes know more than doctors dooo after all my research lol :-( ... I always second guess any of my actions to determine if its normal or abnormal ... checking myself and imagining myself being like that ... Its such an irrational fear and sooooo hard to live with because it increases the racing thoughts ... sometimes I ask myself for example .. If I am alright and happy in a good mood ... I ask myself "Am I manic" ... or when a lil down and depressed " Am I bipolar" ... or if I laugh with friends and do funny things to make them laugh or try and enjoy myself I ask myself "Am I schizophrenic" .... or do they think I am crazy or something ... Even though I know they think I am 100% fine and normal its all this torture in my mind of thoughts and anxiety etc ... Can u relate to any of this .. how can I seek help with these thoughts ... in the program Lucinda doesnt talk much about fear of illness' and mental illness etc ... I just need some re-assurance that these thoughts are just a part of anxiety and not related to anything else ... I thank you sooo much for replying as this re-assurance makes me feel very very much better ... I find it hard to concentrate in school as well ... I go to University of Toronto studying Comp Engineering and it takes alot of concentration to study and do well which I do not have with all this anxiety and panic and stuff ... I am sooo confused and scared as to when things will get better ... If I beat these horrible thoughts I know the derealization will also slowly go away ...
Any other suggestions Sasa ... I would really appreciate it ...

Your Friend

Sachin


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SACHIN

PanicManSach,
Your post brought back some memories for me. Approximately one year ago when my anxiety was approaching its worst point, I too sat on the internet for hours obsessing over the same conditions your are. This is because at that time I had no idea what anxiety was. You are not menataaly deficient. Individuals who have schizophrenia are not even aware they do. I encourage to to order Dr. Fishers tape in which he responds to almost every question asked by those suffering from anxiety including questions regading obsessive, scary thoughts. The mere fact that these thoughts are producing anxiety within you show that you are a very rational human being. I know you're young and can't are having a hard time identifying with those on the tapes however, I encourage you to attack this condition by ordering the tapes and dedicating yourself to them. Also, find a good cognitive behavioral therapist in you area (preferably a Midwest Affiliate) who specializes in anxiety. The more infomation you gather the more your fears will dissipate. Good luck and God bless.

Sachin,

What I can tell you is that you and I are in the same boat. Your probably going to second guest everything you say and do right now, but thats so normal. The thoughts is the hard part, I still battle with those to this day. One thing I hope I can get you to understand is that our way of thinking is a habit. Its not something that is "just" happening to us, its a habit that we developed over that pass few months or years. The obsessive scary thoughts are there from our tired mind. Charged with fear, a fatigue mind can pick up a thought from an experience and replay it over and over and over again. That is obsessive scary thoughts. And they take the form and color of many different things. So dont ever get in the habit of thinking that there are certain thoughts you shouldnt have. Right now just be accepting of all thoughts and dont dwell on them and dont ask yourself why you have them. While you are anxious, you will find that you will thing of some pretty wierd, silly, scary, funny, stupid things. Dont be alarmed. As you already know, its a part of the racing thoughts that come with the anxiousness.

Like Michael said in his post, dont limit yourself by thinking you can do this by yourself. Find someone, especially some one who knows what your are going through, to talk to and who will help you with some behavior cognitive therapy. It helps tremendously.

Another thing, if you havent already, find a good book to read on anxiety. The book I recommend is "Hope and Help for Your Nerves" by Claire Weekes. That book is extremely helpful in understanding the current state that we our in. Read it all the way through. I gurantee that once you get three pages in, you will not want to put the book down. It helps alot. I'm glad I can be of some assistance.

Hope to here from you soon .......SaSa

Hi Michael,

Thank you sooo sooo much for your reply the more I hear how common the fear is and how I am not loosing my mind the more I feel better and it slowly drifts out of my mind. I have done a few things like stopped researching it and just concentrating on anxiety and panic... I noticed today the thoughts werent with me as much but they are still there in the back of my mind ... I have had alot of improvement in my anxiety battle ... I would say I am 90% better as far as panic and anxiety goes ... I get discouraged when I hear others saying this is a life long illness and condition and you will never get better but just learn how to manage it ... I am managing it and its not that bad but some days are better than others ... Perhaps we just need to rewire our brains to certain stimuli and stuff .... who knows ... any suggestions on if we can beat this? ... I know the fear and obsessive thought I have about going crazy will haunt me for a while and I realize that it produces alot of anxiety and symptoms for me but I am going to order Dr. Fishers tape once I am done the program ...
Hope to hear from you soon,

Sachin

Thanks for the prompt reply Sasa ... I am slowly starting to rid myself of this fear and thought it will take time .. I talked to my Pyschologist and he told me I am as far as being Mentally ill as he is ... meaning there is no way in hell anything is wrong with me and I am imaginging myself loosing my mind but it will never happen ... he said you just suffer from emotional issues ... anxiety is not a mental disorder but an emotional disorder ... sorta what Lucinda talks about ... well so far I am stickin with the program it has helped .. but that pesky derealization just wont go away sometimes ... ahhh oh well ...tell me more about your coping techniques and any goals you have acheived in beating this condition...
That book you recommended .. I bought it today and so far its awesome .. I guess the gist of it is we are in a state which we need to pull ourselves out of or something .. anyhow I will respond tommorow I am kinda out of it as I barely got any sleep the last fews day .... talk to you soon

Sachin


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SACHIN

Well, I have gotten as far as you have. I have over come the fear of panic attacks and they dont come nor if they did, they wouldnt bother me. But I have not began to considered myself healing, because there is still that fear that you and I both share that I cant get over. Every time I have a setback, I feel its always some new experience, new symptoms, new "waves". I always take it very ruff because I have to learn what this new strange feeling and sensation is and make sure its "just anxiety" and not me loosing my mind. But the things that I have learned has helped me too put some of the past experiences into perspective and to see that the only thing I have is anxiety. But its hard. The book that you are reading is very helpful with that. I gurantee you will see yourself in that book.

PS. Where can I order Dr. Fisher tapes? I'll love to have those tapes.

SaSa

[This message has been edited by SaSa (edited 02-28-2001).]

Hi Sachin,
Although you are only 20 (I'm 36), it's good that you're recognizing the symptoms NOW. I feel like I've lost so much of my life to anxiety and I'll never get those years back. I have to go forward. But I was listening to this tape today because obsessive scary thoughts are one of my worst anxiety symptoms. One thing that Linda says is that too many people make you believe that if you think something long enough it will happen. (losing your mind, etc) We have to recognize our scary thoughts as distractions from the REAL problem in front of us. For instance at work when I get overwhelmed with a particular job I start obsessing over my husband's behavior. We pick REALLY bad thoughts to distract us so in my mind, we're practically ready for divorce court by the time I'm done. My brain has effectively distracted me from doing the job I was avoiding but has gotten me very stressed out, emotionally wrung out etc. Now that I recognize this I try to catch myself doing it and say..."Ok, what am I doing right now that I'm trying to avoid?" So far today I caught myself obsessing several times and before it got too far I looked and sure enough there was either a career/mom/or wife task I was trying to avoid or make too much out of. As for the depersonalization... I think I know what you mean. For me, it felt like I was becoming totally apathetic. Like the life around me was a movie or TV show and I was watching rather than acting. I felt detached from everyone and everything around me. I noticed it over the holidays when I was "observing" everyone around me rather than participating, laughing and talking. As for all the "old-fogey" situations, try to put them in perspective for yourself. If someone on the tape is talking about marriage, think about a relationship that is important to you. Just try to "adjust it back" to what you know. And as for your fear of going crazy. Oh yeah, been there, got that. My mother is manic-depressive...we call that bi-polar nowadays. She takes Lithium for it and hasn't had an episode since I was a child. But I remember being a 4 to 8 year old kid and seeing my father jamming meds down my mother's throat to "calm her down". So I had this intense fear of "losing it". I know this condition is hereditary and when I would get into somewhat manic state or depressed state I'd shove it back scared at what others would say/do, etc. Scared that my husband would "report" me to my parents and have me "locked up". I'd have nightmares about being in some old 19th century asylum where nobody knew where I was. So I know that fear well. By all rights I shouldn't have listened to this tape because I'm only on tape 4, but this is a major problem for me so I listened to it..and I'm glad I did.
I hope this (and the program) helps you out.
Hugs ,
Pam

PanicMan, I know how you feel. I did the very same thing in the beginning. I surfed the web for hours and hours, days and days trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I went and had a ton of tests done. I also thought I was going crazy. That was my biggest fear too. My family doctor and my psychologist both ordered me to "stop surfing the net, you'll keep scaring yourself and you're not crazy!" I accepted finally that it was just anxiety, but it took a long time. I also had the derealization alot. All I can say is it gets better in time. I would just sit there and let it do it's thing, scary as it was. I kept telling myself it was "only" anxiety, nothing more. Keep practicing your exercises, self-talk, and make sure you get good sleep. That was a biggy for me, I was much worse when I had trouble sleeping. Exercise really helps, too. I am not on meds, so it's been a slow process but it gets better.

JellyBean

Hi PanicManSach, I could really relate to you and I thank you for sharing this in the forum. I am 37 a wife and a mother of 4 children. I led a very successful life up til when I got I.B.S. and lost 65 lbs. then I started with severe panic attacks, and now it is a deep depression with obsessive thoughts that I can't seem to control no matter how hard I try. I have had insomnia, but that has improved. I can't look up any mental illnesses because I have the symptoms of all of them. What is scaring me now, is feeling numb and losing all sense of reality, I am not used to this, because I used to worry about the slightest thing, and now I am numb and have no feeling about anything, just blah no matter what I do. I used to be a very bubbly, passionate person and I do not know who I am anymore. I haven't been able to relax with anything that I do. Is this a sign that I am getting worse or better? If so how do I cope? I am ignoring the symptoms as much as I can. I try to distract myself. My biggest fear is the fear of death. I haven't been able to focus or concentrate on anything, because my mind thinks of about 100o things per minute. I do not know what to do to stop it. I have tries the techniques of the program, and I am not finding it work for me.

Thanx for the reply, we share alot of similar feelings and outlooks recently ... I feel the same way you do ... Anxiety can manifest itself in many ways making us feel like we are loosing our minds and loosing our sense of reality when in fact we are too in touch with reality ... From what you described as far as not worrying about things any longer and being more numb is a good thing that is ridding yourself of the anxiety ... Are you on any medication? ... perhaps an Anti-Depressent would help or a anti-anxiety drug to help with the feelings temporarily ... I went through the program and ended up returning it because it didnt help me as much as my Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with my Doctor has helped me ... I have overcome the fear of having a panic attack and if I feel one coming on I have the ability to control it our make it go away just by thoughts and my reaction to it .. my biggest fear is the fear that one day I will truly loose my mind ... even thought that is soooo irational and the fact that I am talking about it proves how sane I truly am ... lol ... anyhow anxiety is a vicious circle I know .. My other problems are mood swings .. I find my mood switches almost minuite by minuite I feel different or feel odd or sometimes down sometimes up sometimes extremely restless ..As for the 1000 thoughts per minuite ... VERY COMMON ... the fact that your thinking that much means its anxiety ... I think about 20000000000 things a minuite .... The way to cope with this illness is distracting yourself ... not stoping your life and learning to just float with the uncomfortable feelings and just move on ... Its a hard battle but slowly you will start to desensitize yourself to alot of stimuli that once effected you to the point of panicking or freaking out ... I am not really the greatest at advice but I hope I helped... But I would say you are getting better and you will be fine ... just focus on keeping yourself busy ... not giving yourself time to entertain unwanted thoughts because they will eventually go away ... Let me know how things are going ...

Your Friend

Sachin

I'm now reading From Panic To Power by Lucinda Bassett. One of the most important things that I've read so (I'm on page 131) far is "Anxiety is not a mental illness."

I thought it was at first because of the need for medication that is required for some and/or therapy sessions, or both for others.
Just reading this chapter made me feel better; that I'm not crazy nor will I ever be (not from anxiety anyway).

This may or may not be of help to you. I find that as with anything in life (books, movies, theories) somethings, can triggered a certain understanding that makes us believe, and makes us go "Hmmmm...." or "Ah ha!" or "By George I think I got it!"

It's different for everyone. I think that the idea is for each of us to find our own "Ah ha's" in life.

Does this make any sense?

Hi Panicman,

You are not alone I also thought I was crazy or dying of my body symptoms....I also surfed the net looking for answers about my condition mentally and physically...it kinda made things worse....I thought I had Alzheimers Disease and Dementia because my Grandparents got it before they passed.But, anyways come to find out Anxiety disorders run on my mom's side of the family...my mom has anxiety as well...but for the longest none of us had a name for it....this program is great..it helps you overcome that fear...you are not mentally ill...you are creative, sensitive, and above average in intelligence....the thoughts will pass...trust me they will pass...mine are passing away....soemtimes I think i get afaid when I feel good and I try to scare myself back to what I am used to....Just hang in there this program will help you learn how to life all over again.....Keep your chin up...

Sasa,

I am at the point where u are I belive .. The panic doesnt bother me I couldnt give to $hits about it because it passes quickly and I can control it ... However the thing that gets to me is the mood changes I get minuite by minuite and the constant nagging fear that I am going crazy or developing some horrible illness ... this creates my anxiety this one thought has become so overpowering sometimes the anxiety convinces me that I am ... and I feel like almost driving myself to the hospital and saying "I am nutz" even though I know I am not its wierd ... I have been depressed then feel normal then depressed again ... cant have a solid normal day without something or the other bothering me ... What should I do? ... this thought has become so obsessive to the point where it just wont leave my mind ... I feel like I am driving myself to insanity ... I cant understand how I feel like this ... I have such a wonderful life ... loving extremely loving parents ... been spoiled ... fairly wealthy family have everything I could ask for .. have a supportive girlfriend and family ... friends who care about me dearly .. a great job ... whats causing this thought ... why do I feel like any second I am gonna snap ... what ifs what ifs all day long ... I am a mess ... any suggestions!?

BTW . Today is my 21st Birthday I should be happy and having an awesome day but I am not I have been battling this thought .....

Sachin


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SACHIN