I really felt that I was getting a hold on my scary obsessive thoughts of losing control and then whamm!!! I got blown away. I am just looking for a little assurance and maybe some ways people dealt with growth spurts in this area. In my previous post some of you may have read that I have a fear of knives and a fear that I will loose control and hurt someone mainly my children with a knife. It makes me sick that I even think these things. I am filled with so much guilt for even having such horrible thoughts. I love my children so much they are so precious to me so I just cannot seem to get through to why I would think such horrible things about those I love the most. Well, now I will tell you about the growth spurt. My husband and myself took our two little boys on a mini vacation over spring break. When we were on vacation we had to go up high on several occasions. While I was up high I started to have scary thoughts about jumping or God forbid throwing the person next to me over. I know this sounds crazy it is just that once I thought this I could not free it from my mind. Then the next thing I did was begin to read a new book that is out called "The Imp of the Mind", while this does seem to be a good book it is somewhat clinical and talks about all of the bad thoughts that people have. I think this may have been a little too much for me because once I started to read this I felt worse. In the book it talks about when to be concerned about the thoughts, i.e. if they do not scare you etc. Which my thoughts scare me tremendously and make me feel depressed. So I know that I will never act on them. However, this Dr. said that he can never guarantee that someone won't loose it, but he does not believe those who obsess will. Of course I pick that one possibility out and think maybe I will be that one mother who obsesses and freaks out and hurts my children. I apologize that this is getting so long it is just that I could really use some reassurance that I am not completely psycho. This book was all about OCD and I think that it just may have been a little to technical for me and I should probally stick to Lucinda's material. Thanks so much for listening.

Julie

Hi there! Well, i'm here to reassure you...you are not crazy!! I don't know how long you've had panic attacks, or how severe they have been. I've had them 'run my life' for more years than i care to mention....okay, 30!! (8 of those yrs. i was on valium, so i didn't feel much of anything and travelled everywhere!) I would hazard a guess that you, like myself, are being 'too hard and demanding on yourself'. I feel so wonderful as i am improving and can actually imagine becoming free of this! And then...boom! I can't seem to deal with even a short walk! I have to do alot of self-talk in order to not feel very discouraged with myself. Despair is so easy. Were you already thinking about the fact that you were going 'high up' before you reached that point? Did you have the anticipatory anxiety about it? Thoughts of jumping off, or of throwing another person off, are in themselves thoughts of the 'loss of control'. Like, what if i do something i don't want to do!!! I had many of those thoughts years ago when i was very depressed...what if i jump off this balcony!!! AS IF something inside of me, against my will, would just take over! I think that these are symptoms of FEELING out of control. That's why i ask if you were having anticipation of becoming out of control as you went higher up. If you didn't think to, or weren't able to put those 6 steps into action BEFORE reaching that height you got to, then it's understandable that you panicked. I would urge you to NOT take those thoughts seriously....the knife thing...the thought of hurting someone....Lucinda mentions all of them!! I know...how can any of us feel we AREN'T nuts for thinking these thoughts! I'm suggesting (and i could be so wrong) that if you were afraid of going up that high in the first place, that all those scary thoughts were symptoms brought on by that fear. You said you feel guilty for having these thoughts. Like you are a bad person for having them?? You aren't guilty. You didn't DO anything! You're just a person who had these scary thoughts. About reading that book that confused you and didn't turn out to be helpful....i've had alot of experience in my life with that sort of thing....where i'm doing just fine and then i pick up some book at make myself crazy, cause it doesn't exactly match or fit in with what i'm already reading or practicing. For now, i would suggest to you to do what i decided to do a few years back. Just stick with one model of recovery at a time! Keep this simple. I tend to complicate things so much, and staying aligned with one practice at a time is SO helpful to me. What i am doing right now, with this Midwest program, is very different than what i have done before. I wouldn't do them both right now, or i'd confuse myself to death! What do you think? Make sense? I hope something has been helpful for you here. One day i hope we can create a Forum where we can discuss what TOTAL freedom from fear is like!! God bless.....Lindi

------------------
Linda

Julie I totally know how your feeling. I just went through the exact same thing last month feeling like I've lick this problem I feel like a new person it was so great next thing ya know bam! Back came that scary thought I can't stand that. I'm right back to square one again. I've gone back to my book Panic to Power because I don't have the program yet. Anyways I know how you feel like your going crazy but I have decided with the help of Lindi to that I'm using the techniques its just a thought and I'm saying to myself come on in thought and wait for it to pass. I hope I got it right from her post before, did I Lindi?? Anyways good luck

Dear Julie,

Your post brought back a slew of memories. I too had similair intrusive, scary, thoughts about hurting myself, loved ones, ect... Before I knew what anxiety and depression was it created much anxiety in my life coupled with depression. Your psychiatrist is right in that we can't guarantee anything in life. We are only blessed with one day at a time. However, I guarantee you'll never act on these scary thoughts because you are just like I am. A good, sensitive, smart, intuitive, intelligent, human being whose anxiety is manifesting itself. The Midwest Center referred me to a wonderful psychologist who is a Phd. from Harvard and studied under Dr. Eliss, the founder of cognitive behavioral therapy. When I read posts like yours I feel compelled to share what I have learned about Intrusive, Obsessive, Scary thoughts.
1) You are the least likely person to ever harm anyone, much less yourself or a loved one. You must remember that the sheer fact that these thoughts create so much distress and anxiety proves this simple fact.
2) Everyone is compulsive and obsessive to some degree. You are not OCD because your thoughts do not follow a ritual. OCD is simply a label. It's just anxiety and anxiety comes in many diffrent forms to many different people.
3) You, like I, are suggestable, in that we may take on symptoms after reading about them. (A not too bright therapist recommended I read a book on O.C.D. while in the throes of my obsessive, scary, thoughts. It did nothing but create more thoguhts which created more anxiety.)
4) You do not suffer from schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder, or are pathological because most who are, are unaware that they are.
5) YOU ARE OF VERY SOUND MIND AND WITH THE RIGHT HELP ARE FULLY CAPABLE OF LIVING A LIFE FREE OF DEBILITATING ANXIETY AND INTRUSIVE, OBSESSIVE, SCARY THOGUHTS.
6) You are a very sensitive person (we all are) which makes us excellent, intuitive parents.
7) The majority of people have obsessive, scary thoguhts. We just tend to obsess a little more than other and thats o.k..
8) Everyone has obscure automatic thoughts that just "pop" in our minds. You now must develop sound, rational responses to "balance" yourself.
9) Carry a notepad around with you and record each scary thoguht that comes into your mind. As per each thought, record what you were doing, what the thought was, the strength of the thought (how much anxiety in created in percentage terms.) For example 0% is no anxiety and 100% is full blown anxiety, fear, ect..). Lastly, record a rational response. Pretty soon these rational responses with become second nature and your anxiety and scary thoguhts will dissipate. I could write for hours on this subject and strongly suggest listening to tape #10 because we had thoughts exactly like Lucinda Bassett. You are of very sound mind and will recover completely because it appears you possess the trait most needed for recovery; Willingness. God bless you and please feel free to ask any questions any time.

Michael,

Thank you so very much for responding. It is just so wonderful to know that there are others out there who have battled these scary thoughts. I just want you to know that I appreciate your comments and wisdom. I seem to be doing better with the thoughts, like I said earlier it is often times the guilt associated with the thoughts that is more debilitating to me then the thought itself. I guess my problem is trying to understand why I would possibly think such terrible things about people (mainly my kids) when I really am a wonderful mom and I love my kids more than anything else in the whole world. Often times I think that these scary thoughts are my way of trying to deal with maybe what it would feel like if something happened to them. Did you every think that? I only say this because if anything is even slightly wrong with them say an ache or a pain, I just freak out because I cannot imaging living without them. I know that this probably sounds silly but it is true. Ever since I was a small child I have been freaked out about people I love dying. Well, I do know that the key for me is replacing these negative thoughts. As far as the other parts of anxiety I really do not struggle a lot it is mostly these scary obsessive thoughts. I really feal if I could get rid of this I would be free. In your post you commented on my psychiatrist, I do not have one I was making mention of what a doctor that wrote the book I was reading said. Actually when I did go to therapy the therapist told me that I had generalized anxiety disorder with obsessive thinking. Why is it that when you read some books it says that if you have these scary thoughts you have O.C.D. Let me know what you think. P.S. Do you still struggle with the scary thoughts?

Dear Julie,

I had very obsessive scary thoughts about hurting my children with knives too. I can tell you that I don't any more!! I owe a lot of that to a book I read called "Hope And Help For Your Nerves" By Doctor Claire Weekes. I have recomended this book all over this forum, and I can't tell you what a God send it has been. She devotes an entire chapter to this problem, and explaines everything about them right down to where they come from. Which was very comfoting to me. And once you learn this stuff, they just won't have the shock value that they used to, and then they are gone! I wish I could explain this further, but it would take way too long, and she does a much better job of it than I ever could. You can get this book at Amazon.com, or Barnes and Noble's web site for about 7$. You can also get it at many book stores, and local libraries. I would highly recomend you get yourself a copy and read it. Trust me, I don't think you will be disapointed.

Please, don't feel guilty about this. Just remember, two things... People only obsess about what they hate the most, this is why you have this particular obsession. And number two, people who have obsessive scary thoughts NEVER act on them. They are actually the safest people to be around because they are so afraid of hurting someone. I know it may not feel like this to you, but IT'S TRUE. And keep this in mind, "YOUR WISH IS NOT TO HURT YOUR CHILDREN, IT IS TO RID YOURSELF OF THE THOUGHTS". I know you will, I did. I still have problems with anxiety, but I DON'T have obsessive scary thoughts any more!!

Best Of Luck
Mellie

[This message has been edited by mellie (edited 05-01-2001).]

quote:

Originally posted by mellie:
Dear Julie,

I had very obsessive scary thoughts about hurting my children with knives too. I can tell you that I don't any more!! I owe a lot of that to a book I read called "Hope And Help For Your Nerves" By Doctor Claire Weekes. I have recomended this book all over this forum, and I can't tell you what a God send it has been. She devotes an entire chapter to this problem, and explaines everything about them right down to where they come from. Which was very comfoting to me. And once you learn this stuff, they just won't have the shock value that they used to, and then they are gone! I wish I could explain this further, but it would take way too long, and she does a much better job of it than I ever could. You can get this book at Amazon.com, or Barnes and Noble's web site for about 7$. You can also get it at many book stores, and local libraries. I would highly recomend you get yourself a copy and read it. Trust me, I don't think you will be disapointed.

Please, don't feel guilty about this. Just remember, two things... People only obsess about what they hate the most, this is why you have this particular obsession. And number two, people who have obsessive scary thoughts NEVER act on them. They are actually the safest people to be around because they are so afraid of hurting someone. I know it may not feel like this to you, but IT'S TRUE. And keep this in mind, "YOUR WISH IS NOT TO HURT YOUR CHILDREN, IT IS TO RID YOURSELF OF THE THOUGHTS". I know you will, I did. I still have problems with anxiety, but I DON'T have obsessive scary thoughts any more!!

Best Of Luck
Mellie

[This message has been edited by mellie (edited 05-01-2001).]

Mellie,

Thank you so so much for responding. These scary thoughts just have to be the worst. The hardest part for me is that I really am a highly functionable person. I am college educated with a great job, my husband and I own our own business, I do not avoid anything as all, yet these scary thoughts seem to get the best of me. I read in one of your earlier posts that you were told that you had OCD, was this just because of the scary thoughts? Also did you use medication to rid yourself of the thoughts? (I really do not want to use medication.) It seems from some of the books you read they try to say if you have scary thoughts you are OCD, but then others say that this is not true. I guess it really does not matter. It just seems anytime I read about OCD I end up obsessing about that. I also read in one of your other posts that you were hospitalized for anxiety, was that because of the medicine you were taking? Just curious. Anyway, I will definitely be picking up the book you suggested, but I tell you what helps more than anything is knowing other people have experienced this and they made it through it. P.S. How long did you have the scary thoughts. And some positive for you if you beat these scary thoughts you are capable of beating any problem at all with anxiety you are a survivor. Good for you.

Julie

Dear Julie,
In response to your first question, some therapists like to label every condition for whatever reason. I was initially told I had O.C.D. because of intrusive, scary, thoughts and I obsessed about it reading everything I could about O.C.D. and even going so far as contacting support groups in the area. Until I found the Midwest Center and was reffered to an excellent Psychologist which was an affiliate of the Midwest Center, I had convinced myself I was O.C.D. We are not O.C.D.. You only have generalized anxiety like myself. The good newes is Julie this condition is curable, limitation and symptom free.
In response to your second question, "Do I have intrusive, scary thoughts of hurting loved ones?" The answer is no. these thoguhts may come but now I can laugh about it and pat myself on the back for coming so far. These thoughts do not affect me at all. EVERYONE HAS SCARY THOUGHTS. WE ARE SENSITIVE PEOPLE THUS IT MAY AFFECT US MORE THAN OTHERS. These thoguths lost all power and dissipated when I began cpountering them with rational responses. I wrote as may scary thoughts as I could throughout the day and replaced each one with a rational response. Over time my brain picked up on this and these rational responses became second nature. Theeir could be plenty of reasons why you have scary thoughts about hurting your children. Scary thoguhts could be genetic, filling a void, who knows. It doesn't matter. Keep writing them down and reassure yourself on paper that your going to be o.k.. Got to run. God Bless

Dear Julie

To answer your first question yes. I was told I had OCD because of my thoughts.

To answer your second question, NO. I don't like ant-depressants. I have tried them, but they DID NOT help me. Personally, I don't feel they are nessecary to treat this particular problem.

To answer your third question. Yes, as a matter of fact, I had such a bad emotional reaction to prozac, that I ended up in the hospital. However, this may not happen to you as everyone is different.

To answer your fourth question, I had them on and off for quite sometime. HOWEVER, I first read the book I recomended to you when I was 19 and just had generalized anxiety at that time. If I had just read this book again insted of seeing these so called doctors, who gave me prozac and just made things worse, I KNOW I would have rid myself of them a lot sooner. For some reason, I didn't have the book any more and did not remember the part about obsesive thoughts being in it. I guess I was so impressed with it at the time I first read it that I never thought I would have anxiety again so there for I probably gave it a way to someone else. I'll never do that again

I would like to tell you a little story from this book. I think it will help eas your mind a bit. If my spelling and puncuation get bad, forgive me. I'm rather tired

There was this nurse who worked in a maternity ward. Her job was to take care of the infants after they were born. She worked very long hours and also had some other stressors in her life that were frankly giving her "brain fatige" In other words, her brain was so tired from stress that any unpleasant thought could easily "stick". Anyway, one day as she was holding one of the babies she had a passing thought as any one of us could have. She thought to herself "wouldn't it be terrible if I threw this baby out the window?" Now because her brain was in this tired state, the thought scared her so much that it stuck. It became intrusive and obsesive because she fought it. Every time she passed a window with a child in her hands she would cling to the child tighter and tighter for fear she would throw it out of the window. Her wish of course was not to throw the child out the of window, it was to simply rid herself of the thought. The more she tried to fight with this thought and rid herself of it, the more energy she wasted. Therefore, the more fatigued her brain became and the more the thought reoccured. Hence, the obsesive disorder began.

Her first mistake was to fight it. To try to rid herself of it quickly, as any one of us would have. But needless to say, this did not work. And of course she thought she was going crazy, once again, as any one of us would, but this was not the case either. She simply had a scary thought at a stressful and brain fatigued time and it stuck.

Julie, here is what you need to do. First of all remember this story. This is how people get obsesive thoughts. It is nothing to feel guilty about.

Secondly, be prepared to live with these thoughts FOR THE TIME BEING. Accept them as nothing more than anxiety. They won't hurt you or anyone else. They are only thoughts. Do not add fuel to the fire with "oh my goodnesses" or "what ifs". There are no what ifs. You are not crazy and you will not act on them. It just doesn't happen. Let yourself have them for now. Approch them with as much apathy (that's right I said apathy) as you can muster and do not be fooled by them. You are simply experienceing them because you are afraid of them. If you just let them come and face them with as little "what ifs" as possible, accept the fact that they are nothing more than anxiety brought on by fatigue, float through them, in other words relax you body AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, then CALMLY find a distraction, something you enjoy, and do this while LETTING TIME PASS, they will eventually go away. And please read that book. Dr. Weekes can explain this to you much better than I can.

Best of Luck
Mellie

P.S. Feel free to e-mail me if you would like. I think we both could use a support person.

[This message has been edited by mellie (edited 05-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by mellie (edited 05-03-2001).]

Hi Julie

It's me again, Mellie. I was just hoping to hear from you. Let me know how you are doing and if my last post helped in any way.

Would Like To Hear From you, Mellie

quote:

Originally posted by mellie:
Hi Julie

It's me again, Mellie. I was just hoping to hear from you. Let me know how you are doing and if my last post helped in any way.

Would Like To Hear From you, Mellie

Mellie,

Thank you again for responding, it is great to hear stories of others. Sorry, I did not get back to you right away. I have been planning and having my five year old son's birthday party, he had such a great time. It was a success. I did pick up the book you recommended and it is awesome. It really does put these thoughts into perspective. Right now the thoughts are better. See mine have gone off and on since I was about nineteen and I am now twnety-nine. They seem to hang around until I find another scary thought to replace them with. But, now I am taking your and Michael's advice and first accepting them and living with them for the time being and also countering them with a positive rational response. Thanks again so much and if you would like to talk or need support just post and I am always here for you.

Julie

Dear Julie

I'm so happy to hear from you!

Congradulations on picking up that book. I know it will help.

Sounds like you had a good time on your son's birthday. What a wonderful mother you must be!

Keep up the good work and always remember you deserve to be happy.

Mellie

P.S. Talk to you soon

dear julie
i know what you are going through,
and i want to tell you about vitamins
you can take that will make you feel like
julie agian,you will feel like you have your mind back, you will think with a clear head and believe me it help's you to deal with scary thoughts with in a couple of days you will feel such a change believe me it's a god sent.
there are two vitamins i am going to tell you about, one is called gaba 500mg with mood
support you take one in the morning on a
empty stomach and one at night on an empty stomach.
gaba is a non-essential amino acid found mainly in the human brain and eyes.
gaba is referred to as the brain's natureal calming agent.
second vitamin is l-glutamine 500 mg
take one in the morning.
glutamine is involved in maintaining a positivenitrogen balance.
and there are made by now brand.
i have been reading your post and we are going through the same thing and these vitamins and god have saved me so please try it i know you will feel great .
god bless and let me know what you think
lisa

julie hi I just got connected to the forum. I have so much to say. I will try to make it as short as possible. I understand exactly what you are going thrue only I have a much different type of fear and I don't think anyone thinks something as ridiculous as my fear.From my view of your fear , I would say that I know for a fact that you are not psyco or anything because your fear is common for people with anxiety. The anxiety feels so uncomfortable and intense that it makes you feel that you are not in control of your body but it does not mean that you actually will lose control even though the fear is so intense. If it was something would do , It would not bother you so much. I have a three year old daughter and my scary obsessive thought is that I will lose control of myself and faint from fear of thoughts of any horrible thing thing I can think of.I would think about it every second of the day and made myself feel sick and I am scared of any anxious feeling. I've had this fear for three months now and I haven't fainted yet. My point is that anxiety is so intense and unbearable sometimes that we think our thoughts are real or will become real.I was so afraid I would faint over a thought and never have control of myself and faint everytime I went out or tried to do something. It doesn't make much sense to me but it was constantly on my mind until I started taking paxil a month ago. It helps me to let go of the thought and helps me want to think more positive. sometimes the thought will creep back in but it don't let it scare me by just knowing that it is only a thought and sometimes I just ask God to help me think of good things today . If the thoughts come to me I say I let go I let God and it helps. I try to do something to keep myself busy , doing something interesting to you helps alot.I hope you will find relief soon believe it or not it is in you to find it. Don't get discouraged if you feel terrible sometimes , you will get more strength at differet times . Don't dwell on how bad it feels right now . Once you find a tiny bit of strength thats when you can think more positive and keep building it up little by little. You will find a little bit of strength on one of your better days which will come.

Good luck, csr

quote:

Originally posted by mellie:
Dear Julie,

I had very obsessive scary thoughts about hurting my children with knives too. I can tell you that I don't any more!! I owe a lot of that to a book I read called "Hope And Help For Your Nerves" By Doctor Claire Weekes. I have recomended this book all over this forum, and I can't tell you what a God send it has been. She devotes an entire chapter to this problem, and explaines everything about them right down to where they come from. Which was very comfoting to me. And once you learn this stuff, they just won't have the shock value that they used to, and then they are gone! I wish I could explain this further, but it would take way too long, and she does a much better job of it than I ever could. You can get this book at Amazon.com, or Barnes and Noble's web site for about 7$. You can also get it at many book stores, and local libraries. I would highly recomend you get yourself a copy and read it. Trust me, I don't think you will be disapointed.

Please, don't feel guilty about this. Just remember, two things... People only obsess about what they hate the most, this is why you have this particular obsession. And number two, people who have obsessive scary thoughts NEVER act on them. They are actually the safest people to be around because they are so afraid of hurting someone. I know it may not feel like this to you, but IT'S TRUE. And keep this in mind, "YOUR WISH IS NOT TO HURT YOUR CHILDREN, IT IS TO RID YOURSELF OF THE THOUGHTS". I know you will, I did. I still have problems with anxiety, but I DON'T have obsessive scary thoughts any more!!

Best Of Luck
Mellie

[This message has been edited by mellie (edited 05-01-2001).]

Mellie:

I love the line when you say we obsess over the thing we hate the most. I almost cried when I read that. I think my obssesive scary thought is definitely something I cannot stand to think of let alone ever do. I'm so glad you said that. Thanx