Hi everyone...As you can see from my user name, I have a bit of a problem with obsessive thinking. I've been here before, and own the program. But lately I've been having a lot of obsessive thoughts about God and whether or not he exists (I hope I don't offend anyone here, that's not my intention ). A very good friend of mine who I've always looked up to does not believe in God--only evolution. She says that science just seems to prove more on that end, and that you can see evolution today. For some reason, I've always taken what this friend of mine says to heart, and really listen to what she says. And now after hearing her feelings toward God, I've been dwelling on whether or not evolution is true. It's pretty much all I can think about. I used to be confident in the existance of God and never used to question it. I wish I could go back there, but am just having a really hard time. Any advice would be appreciated! And again...I hope no one is offended. I'm just really stuck in the middle here. Kind of lost. Thanks a lot!

I think one of the only free wills we have is to believe, or not,. I can't find a problem in believing that a higher power designed evolution. Hope this helps you.

Don't let evolution get in the way of your belief in a Creator. I believe evolution is part of God's plan. Why do we have to believe in a 7 day creation schedule. Is 200 billion years any less a miracle?

Thanks both of you. This is just a constant arguement in my mind...as most lovely obsessions are. It's like I'm constantly trying to convince myself that God exists, and then these "rebuttal" type thoughts creep in uncontrollably with the "yeah, but...science shows this...look at these animals and how they seem to have 'evolved'...and so on...bla bla bla". I just wish I could shut them up and feel confident about this again...Hopefully this is just a stage.

God exists. Look around you. Look at the four seasons, for example, at the birth of a puppy or any living creature. Yes, evolution exists and so does God. You can't have one without the other.

But most importantly, don't let others opinions on something take away your power. You can agree to disagree and that's OK. Trust yourself. If you believe there is a God, then there is a God. If you doubt there is a God, so what. God doesn't mind if you doubt. "He" exists no matter what you believe, no matter what your friend believes.

There are several religions out there but the one I am referring to right now is Science of Mind (Ernest Holmes is the founder). This belief is where science and religion meet. They definitely talk from the Bible and they also refer to science. You simply can not have one without the other.

I believe that you have to trust both sides with faith. I know different people who believe in a young and old earth, who both believe in a Creator. Evolution takes as much faith as Creation. You just have to decide for yourself which one. There is a lot of info out there. Have you ever watched the movie Expelled?

Don't watch the movie Expelled.

Is there a God? Possibly. Is evolution real? Irrefutably. Did God design evolution? It would seem so.

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And now after hearing her feelings toward God, I've been dwelling on whether or not evolution is true.

First, are you aware that the majority of scientists who believe in the theory of evolution are prejudiced against the possible existence of a higher power such as God. In other words, they don't seek to be objective in their so called pursuit of "truth" but completely and purposley rule out any possible credence that God exists without any rational explanation whatsoever, except that God "can't be seen or touched or verified." That is number one, the so called objective truth seekers rule out any possiblity of a spiritual being whatsoever because it doesn't fit their method of testing or verification. So, one can conclude form this alone that there is an agenda, a bias, built into the "lens" through which they see the world and the universe. They have a filter, in other words, through which they see things.

Number 2: What do you mean by the term evolution? Are you aware that before there was life there were only dead compounds and substances? How did life come from such dead compounds? And how did it happen all by chance? What are the statistical odds that this could occur? Have you given thought to this?

The scientific method is defined as testing the validity of a theory through repeatable lab experiments to in order to validate the theory. Scientists can not create life in the lab, nor create transitional species in the lab, yet they believe by faith, not proven science, that life began from dead compounds and that all species of plants and animals orginated from the same descendant. None of this can be proven through experiment because scientists don't know how it occurred. They simply "believe" it did based upon other observable evidence. This is not science but conjecture and hypothesis.

Much of evolutionary theory is based upon historical geology which is based largely on "educated guesses" and "insufficient evidence" to quote William Lee Stokes, author of "Essentials of Earth History", second edition, 1966. [Historical Geology textbook]

Conclusion: much of evolutionary theory is not based upon the scientific method and, therefore, is not based upon science.

There is a ton of evidence which supports an intelligent design and purpose of the universe. But you will not hear such evidence from those who believe only in the theory of evolution. They have filtered out such evidence with their "lens".

I'd suggest you do some study and thought on your own from both sides before developing any conclusions. You won't get all the truth from either side.

If you're going from bacteria to animals, wouldn't several or a number of mutations need to take place simultaenously at a number of points along the way? And if that is true, what are the statistical odds of that occurring by chance or random?

I assume you are aware that the only creditable theory as to how the universe was formed is the "big bang theory?" Scientists believe the universe was created, i.e. it did not evolve.

Here's a thread about this debate a couple of years ago on this forum.
http://bbs.stresscenter.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/613105472/m/9961096553/p/1

I think this Ph.D in microbiology may be able to shed some light on some of the weaknesses of the evolutionary theory.

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Darwinism-I...id=1234958596&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Icons-Evolution-Science-Teach-Abo...id=1234958596&sr=1-1

BTW, I have not read any of Mr. Wells works. The ideas I present are my own thinking.

I don't want to get into a big debate about the creation of the universe or the purpose to it, but look at this:

1. Living creatures reproduce.
2. Change is introduced in every generation (darker skin, lighter skin, taller, shorter, etc.)

Multiply that by 4.5 billion years and you have evolution. The question not to ask is "what would cause evolution" but "what would stop it from happening?"

The only way evolution would _not_ happen is if every offspring was an exact clone of one of its parents. If that were true, then there'd be no evolution. But change is introduced in every generation.

-d-

Sorry about this, but Lucinda says to speak your mind.

I don't understand where this repeated need to trash evolution comes from. Michael Behe (who was quoted) has been discredited. Most of the books you cited have terrible reviews on Amazon.

I'd have to read up more to discredit your other arguments, but the one I can do off the top of my head is the "transitional species" one. It's like the Kirk Cameron/Crockoduck one. There are no transitional species because every creature links from one to the next. If you were to use photographs instead of fossils as proof of my development, I could show you a thousand photos of me as a kid, and a dozen of me as a 34 year old. But I could never show you a single one of me transitioning from that kid to the 34 year old.

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Don't watch the movie Expelled. Smiler

Excuse me, that was a great movie and full of good information. If someone wants to watch Expelled they are certainly welcome to and don't need to be told not to.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/ The movie is available as a rental.

I would never come on here telling people not to watch a certain movie. People can think for themselves here thank you very much.

Another wonderful resource is "Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution" http://www.christiananswers.net/catalog/incredible.html I found all the volumes at my local library.

One should thoroughly search every angle until they can reach their own conclusions.

I would never tell people what to think or not to think (although, admittedly, I did tell someone not to watch Expelled).

I apologize for my suggestion. But to defend my own point, I would further suggest that if someone takes the time to watch Expelled, they should also take the time to visit this website.

http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth/evolution

Doogie,

No need to apologize for what you think or believe. I was not trying to trash evolution so much as to point out it has major weaknesses as an all encompassing theory of life. Much of it is theory, not fact, since much has not been scientifically validated through reproducing the results which the theory espouses. But, I don't hear evolutionists objectively pointing out the weaknesses, only the strong points.

In my view, and I understand it is not yours, they are not objective in their views. They view objective, material evidence through a filter. They claim their theories are based on science when in fact some are not. The "science" can not be reproduced to support the theory. Such as how did life begin from dead compounds? There are two theories I am aware of, but neither is viable even to those who have proposed the theory. In my view, that is not science but theory and hypothesis. It is a "faith".

WOW...I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. Even though this is an "obsessive" thought topic for me, it is still a rational thing to ponder. I just do it way too much as usual. But I really do appreciate everyone's response. So I guess my issue is not whether evolution exists (it obviously does), but if it happened just by chance or by God. This is a question that will probably always be argued, I'm just trying to feel confident in my belief of God again. I was never really a religious person, just more of a spiritual one. And I'm just trying to find that again. Thanks everyone.