Hi everyone! It appears to me that all of us have different personal experiences while working with these lessons. Some seem to go sailing through, spending one week on each lesson and then they graduate! This is certainly not the case for me, and i would appreciate other people's experiences, to give me perspective. I've just been through the most depressing, listless, despairing few days, and my intuition tells me that i have no choice but to take a complete break from the efforts involved in working this program. I can understand to some degree, why this has happened to me. Partly, i have been finding i have SO much to work on and feel overwhelmed and even depressed at discovering how HARD it is to overcome reactions i've had for my whole life. ( I have tried to be as loving and gentle with myself as i possibly can!) The other thing is...and i'd love to know if anyone else is going through times like this...when dealing with Anger, for instance, there is MUCH that cannot simply be 'dissolved' and has it's roots in childhood. Alot of insights and feelings are arising, much of it very painful. I KNOW that this process can be very healing (as in any therapy process) but what i think happened with me, these last few days, is that i collapsed into the sadness, the emotional pain, the despair of what has been at the very CORE of me, since childhood....which has to do with feeling Shame, Inadequacy, An enormous lack of Comfort with who i am (was). I KNOW that the way to deal with this in order to 'heal' this pain, is to express it through anger (not toward the people who caused it, but on my own...or with a therapist) as Anger can 'move' me forward. In this case, i think i have instead...turned inward, became depressed and was completely unable to carry on with my practicing this program. I think this behaviour 'mimics' what happened to me as a child: giving up, giving in, becoming sad and crying at just about anything! I became so exhausted, all the angry negative thoughts returned and i think this anger is REALLY meant to be directed to it's Source and expelled from the body. I didn't do that, i collapsed. So, for now, i have to take this break, because in the state i'm in, i simply can't apply myself. After i've rested, i'm hoping to return to where i left off and do the 'anger work'. I don't think this kind of 'work' is mentioned in these lessons...that sometimes the process required in recovery...goes alot deeper! Is anyone experiencing this????? I had actually thought that (like many others) i would find myself 'recovered', to some extent, within a few months! From my point of view at this time, the process takes a whole lot longer than that! I'm asking for your feedback because i need (so badly) to NOT get discouraged with myself. Thank you! Have a great day......Lindi

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Linda

Hi Linda, It sounds like you need to give yourself permission to feel less than 100%
and acknowledge that everybody has some bad days now and then. Smart people learn that you take the good days with the bad and move on. People with anxiety seem to want to "figure out" why they are feeling a certain way. Remember that anxiety FEEDS off of our fear and resistance to it, so if you are reacting to negative feelings by telling yourself: Why do I still feel this way? What's wrong with me? You are inadvertently feeding the anxiety and making the situation worse.

By all means give yourself a couple of days away from studying the skills if you feel tired. Allow yourself some time to digest and reflect on what you have learned. In particular, focus on how your habitual thinking patterns might be generating the anxiety in your life. Be patient and stay positive. One of the guys on the tapes observed that the same way you step into an anxiety disorder is the way you step out of it---gradually. Remember that you are working on becoming your own soothing and supportive best friend. You wouldn't DEMAND that your friend be completely over anxiety
symptoms by a certain date. Why treat yourself that way?

Hi Kenneth, Thank you so much for your reply. I appreciate your support regarding 'easing up' on myself,with regard to how much i do. More and more, i am accepting that my own recovery from panic attacks will take longer than i had hoped for. I have no problem at all with my having 'bad days and good days', this is just life, and right now a part of the recovery process. As far as people with anxiety wanting to 'figure out' why they feel a certain way....let me explain what i perhaps wasn't clear about: I had no fear or resistence to what i was going through for those few days. It was important for me to look at what was going on inside of me prior to this happening so that i could comprehend how i got myself there. And i am very glad i took the time to do this. This was not a case of useless-introspection and paralyzing analysies.....I 'knew' that what was happening was a part of my own healing process (i know this because i've been through therapy on and off, and because i am a therapist and have a deep respect for the process of healing and growth). I was saying that i could 'see' how i had collapsed into sadness, rather than expressing anger. In understanding this about myself....i am now equipped to return to the issues i was then writing about, with a different approach, once which will help, rather than cause me such pain. In making a 'connection' with the root of the problem, i am better able to help myself. So, my question in that posting was...is anyone else finding that working these lessons is evoking alot of feelings that have been largely unconscious, which need to emerge in order to heal? I want to tell you, again, how much i appreciate your words regarding my feelings of discouragement.....it's easy for me to feel that way...that was my 'old' way, and at times i still need to be reminded to LOVE myself, no matter what! **writing this back to you was hard for me in a way, as in Lesson 4......'shoulds and shouldnts'...."i shouldn't explain myself if i feel misinterpreted because i don't want to make this person feel defensive. Or angry. Or unappreciated.etc.." Talk with you again, God bless, Lindi

I am still going through the program. I had a break of ten weeks between Lesson 2 and 3. After Lesson 2, I suddenly saw that I could change for the better; I didn't seem to have done anything and I was feeling better in myself. It was the first time that I had felt happy in a long time--and this scared me. If I got better I would have to face my fears and I panicked.

Thankfully the Tapes don't self distruct in five seconds. When the time was right I can back to them. For me, this is touched on in Lesson 12 as resistance behaviour.

I visualise negative thoughts as Demons. For me there are two things. One: when I start to get better the Demons realise they are losing their grip on me and start all their dirty tricks to pull me back and stop me making progress--the anger, sadness, self-hate, stop doing the Course. When I feel this negativity, I must try to celebrate because the Demons are losing. ( My body sign for this is horrid smelling flatulence which I see as the Demons leaving my body.) Two: I see Life as a book. All things are happening at once but sometimes one is not on the right page. When one reaches the right page--things just happen or so it appears. In short, don't panic about time.

What I didn't realise when I started this Course was how much I had papered over the cracks to appear normal. I agree with you, one must give time to lance the wounds of the past, to have no place for Demons to hide and I have found the Attacking Anxiety program has given me the tools to address the sort of self-healing surgery I need.

I don't know if this misses your point but my answer to your topic is--yes.

Kind regards, Neil

[This message has been edited by Neil (edited 05-03-2001).]

Hi Neil, and 'kind regards' to you too! So, you're an Irish lad!! I could use a 'wee' bit of support from that part of the world! (i'm saying this aloud with my pretend Irish accent) I was with a Brit for many years (who i am still friends with) and he does the Irish accent so well....says mine is pathetic, but i love doing it! Alright, the business at hand.... Regarding those demons, i have used a similar visual myself....based on the Theme of my 'selling my soul to the devil' (Faust story)...not to take the devil-thing literally....the concept of selling our 'true' selves to some 'perceived' notion of security or safety. I have also been aware that whenever i progress on my 'journey', throughout the years, that this aspect of myself rears it's head in defiance and does whatever it can do to make movement very difficult. I have come to realize this 'part' of myself is just a tiny child who is afraid she can't make it, won't be safe,etc.. (often called the Ego) So, i approach this part of myself with LOVE and acceptance, as i found that fighting this does not work. I recognize the nature of this 'force' in myself and that it is 'trying' (unsuccessfully) to protect me. NO WAY it's going to give up it's lifelong job so quickly!! I love your description of 'papering over the cracks'....reminds me of such a beautiful song written by Leonard Cohen....the line is "Forget your perfect offering, there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in". What that means to me is...nothing, nobody is perfect, there is a crack, a faultline, the place where something went 'wrong'..... and it is through THERE that we must venture, that's how we discover the light. Thank you so much for sharing your viewpoint and for reminding me that IT TAKES TIME. All the best, Lindi

Hello Lindi, how're you doing?

I must disappoint you about my Irishness, I only live here. I am British with an English accent. And I am useless at impressions, so. So I am to be sure. Would you ever be after having a feed of bacon and cabbage, so--is the closes I can give you.

The main reason why I moved to Ireland is because of agoraphobia, to get away from people. That was five years ago and with my recovery, I realise I need the stimulus of people, shops, buildings, choice and variety. I am planning to move to England again this summer. I would like to move to France but the bureaucracy there is to much for me.

I don't know Leonard Cohen's work that well other than I had a friend who loved to cry to Cohen's poems. He said Cohen's early work was the best.

I can appreciate your child within. I once talked aloud to this child, trying to place the feeling and visualize him. I thought he was five or six and I started to draw him. To my shocked surprise he is a newly born child encased in a rivetted steel ball with a window looking out. It made me realise how well protected this life force is and how pure. It is this purity that makes the force so immensely strong. This same force that sends one crashing to ones knees, I am sure, can be used to guide one to great happiness. It's a question of working with--And And--rather than against--Either Or. Embrace the child rather than change the child. Is your child trying to protect you or are you trying to protect your inner child? I am sure the child is happy when we are happy.

I often have to remind myself, "Give yourself a chance."

Take care, Neil

[This message has been edited by Neil (edited 05-06-2001).]

Hi Lindi, How are ya doing? Talk about major stall for me, lesson 6 has made me angrier and more afraid of people. I know it will be ok, it's just the old stuff, one more time around. It was refreshing to see you bring this up, i needed it! I put the tapes on when i am at the computer, so that helps, however i find myself angry at the people talking on the tapes (does that sound stupid) are you supposed to get angry in lesson 6, each one has been relatively slide till this one ahhh! anyway, it's nice to know i am not alone. epona

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So many of us get worried when we back slide or don't do the program "right". I am doing it for the second time and hear things I missed the first time.

This time the lesson on anger made me realize what an angry person I have been over the years.

Maybe if I read the workbook again in a year something else will jump out at me.

LINDI: Knowing you are a therapist, I'll still tell you something that helped me over the years in hopes of helping you.

When I think back and remember shameful and humiliating things from my childhood I pray to God, "God, I know this happened and I know you can't make the experience go away. Please heal me from this event and take away the feelings of pain, embarrassment, guilt, and shame that I feel when I think about....".

I can't change what happened only how I react to it.

One other thing that surprised me recently while I watching the Oprah show was that I remember that awful feeling walking through the halls in middle school, think that "everyone" was making fun of me. When I wrote down the names of the people I remembered there were only 4 or 5 boys who made fun of me during this period. It is amazing how a few people feel like an army. I let go of those feelings after this.

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Always Hopeful, Betsy H.
Marietta, GA (East Cobb)

[This message has been edited by EastCobbGABetsyH (edited 05-07-2001).]

Hi again Neil, So, you're a Brit. Well, i also do a terrible British accent, but enjoy that as well! As for the 'bacon and cabbage'...no more bacon, cabbage sometimes. How in the world did you GET to Ireland, when you had agoraphobia???? Is the program helping you? I haven't seen your name around on this Forum. Neil, i was 'amazed' as i read what you wrote, as it is SO similar to what i have been through in my own therapy! Regarding the visualization work, i also imagined a 6 year old me, and through some further 'dialoguing' with the fear, i discovered an infant!! And this infant was incased in a jelly-like bubble. Hard to describe this therapy-process, things come up that you could NEVER think of with your mind...it's like information you get from a dream. Anyway, this little infant in the bubble came out of this thing, and started to walk toward me (someone was facilitating this session) and as she grew, and became older, she suddenly 'stopped' dead in her tracks, and she turned into a rag-doll. It was 'understood' by me, that she could not
'become REAL' in the world, so she MADE HERSELF UNREAL, and walked back into the bubble, one hand and one foot sticking out, the little head protruding from the top. And then i remembered the story of 'The Velveteen Rabit'...where all these wooden toys lived in a closet and one of them became REAL, and he explained to the others that after they were there long enough, and if the owner held them and loved them enough, then they too would become REAL. And i 'got it' (this was several years ago)....that i had to learn to love this child in a brand new way, so that she could TRUST enough. Your question "Is your child trying to protect you, or are you trying to protect your child?" I think this young 'me' is trying to protect herself. As for the adult me, i hadn't been listening. I agree with you....we have to 'embrace' and not struggle with or fight. There is no enemy there, just fear. And it needs to be transformed by LOVE. So many things that are 'true' sound so corny! Thank's for writing again Neil and hope to speak with you again. God bless, Lindi

Dear Epona, It is SO good to hear from someone who is having a similar experience!! And it makes sense to me, that if there has been alot of buried anger, that bringing it all up (again) is bound to cause alot of discomfort and struggle. The anger that won't just 'dissolve' needs to be expressed (i don't mean AT anybody) and personally, i know that i've been carrying around something closer to 'rage' ever since i was very young and that i turned it inward against myself, in error. For this, i'm thinking of using a therapist to be with me as i do this kind of work. I'm not looking forward to it, but everything tells me.....do it Linda, it's about time! (i'd do it alone, but don't want to scare the neighbours!!) And no, your'e not stupid for getting angry with the people on the tapes! When i'm feeling well, i enjoy listening to all the tapes and the people on them. But when i'm in a negative frame of mind, or just irritated....i feel just what you feel. I dislike how loud and dramatic Lucinda sounds when describing some experience (the same qualities i love when i'm in a better mood!) and from the start...i felt irritated and a bit put-off with alot of that laughter, which at times seems so inappropriate to me. But if there is one thing i've learned over the years, it's that it's so easy to be critical when i'm not happy myself, and it does me NO GOOD. In 1982, i joined a twelve-step program for an eating disorder...if i would attend meetings when i was doing well, i'd LOVE everyone! When i was doing very badly, everyone irritated me. So, it's always all about how i am with myself. Let me know, if you feel like it, how you're doing with all that anger. For the time being, i've left that lesson and am concentrating on Lessons 2 and 3, all over again. Then i'll return to 6, and get on to 7 quickly. I needed a break, badly! Take good care, let's never, ever give up! love.....Lindi

Dear Betsy, You are always very encouraging!! Yes, i am a therapist/counsellor and i realize how odd that might seem, when i have had this panic disorder for so long! (i don't work with anyone who has it also, because i'm not recovered from this) I attended a school for training in something called 'transformational psychotherapy' and finished up there about 5 yrs. ago. (this school was near where i live, thank goodness!) This training, coupled with my personal experience with addiction and my own therapy, provided me with the empathy and skills to faciliate the therapy process. (i also used to work in a residence for battered women) BUT, all this time i have operated within a 5 block radius!! So, never mind that i'm a therapist, i'm open to all the help and support i can get right now, in attempting to recover my life back! So, i truly appreciate anything you think can help or give me hope. I also use prayer daily, since 1982. I'd say it's been the single most important aspect of my life since then, and has been an amazing source of guidance. Sometimes, habits or things that are holding me back...are lifted or taken away. Other times, i'm shown that i need to go through (in this case) releasing all of that anger that has lived inside of me all of my life, which i turned against myself. (i mean in a way that hurts nobody) I took a break from Lesson 6 last week and have gone back to concentrate on working with 2 and 3 and do more 'practice walks'. I'll return to lesson 6 when i feel i can manage it in a way that works....i was having TOO MANY 'practice opportunities' and it was wearing me out! Betsy, thank's so much for your words. God bless, Lindi

Hi Lindi, Whoaa...you hit it straight on. i don't like people at my 12 step meetings when i am like this, i don't like myself most of all, and i don't even like my therapist who is helping me with all my ptsd childhood stuff,(even though i love her), i am going to focus on lessons 2 and 3 for now. i know that refeeling means to relive, and to ultimately grow beyond. not wishing to close the door on my past but looking through it and seeing a good, healthy future. i think that's what i was doing on lesson 6, not a bad thing, just opened the door to refeeling a little bit more, and gave me something to work on in therapy also. thanks for your input, insights once more. love epona

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