Hi everyone! This morning while i was sitting in meditation and feeling that i believe i will finally be able (at some point) to take care of myself regarding these panic attacks that have ruled my life for so long....and re: a few other areas as well, i experienced a flood of memories which found me crying and feeling such a profound grief....for myself! I always DID take care of myself, in a way, when i went through and survived a few unbearable situations. I HAD to go through it all by myself, because it was impossible for ANYONE around me (no matter if they loved me) to comprehend what was happening to me. So, i was feeling how incredibly ALONE i was during such horrific times. One such time was a two-year withdrawal from a 7 year addiction to valium, which is truly not describable. I was alone, in hell. Another was a one-year severely debilitating depression (about 8 yrs.ago) and nobody i knew had any idea of the dimension i was in. And then there have been the many years of panic disorder which has altered my life completely, for 25 yrs. or so. So, i was just allowing myself to feel all of this and cry...very hard to take really. It wasn't something to control or distract myself from...it was honest grief which was necessary to feel. And so what i thought next was....that now, as i am ONCE AGAIN making the attempt to recover completely, the truth is...that i am NOT alone! That you aren't either. That this Forum is such a wonderful gift for all of us....and i don't mean this to come off as corny, because it isn't. It is such an awful thing to be in terror or any extreme state by yourself, and to have one another to share how we are doing, to ask for feedback, to offer suggestions,....all of this makes a HUGE difference to the Recovery Process. On this forum, i witness love, trust, empathy, support, guidance, you name it. Everything we always needed! We've got it. I would say that this forum (for myself) is a part of this program....maybe Lesson 1a or 16b or whatever! Well, there ya have it! Love to all, Linda. / p.s. When alot of us were small, we didn't have alot of 'the above' surrounding us (love,patience,attention,etc.) and we didn't have anything inside of us to help us. Now, we can think of this forum as a kind of family, AND WE ALSO HAVE OURSELVES to turn to!!! Many years ago, i joined a 12 step program (which is also such a wonderful thing!) and we were all like family (except in person!) BUT i still didn't have MYSELF to turn to or depend on in quite the same way! Okay, i'm done!

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Linda

Lindi,
I feel the same way about his forum! It is SO helpful to be able to identify with others, to be able to share your own experiences and get feedback, and to be able to help others in need. I just happened to stumble across this forum after week 1 of the AA&D program. Thank goodness that I found the forum so early! Its so good to have all of you on here participating with me!

Hi Tulip!! What's the AA&D ???? Thank's for your input...have a great day! Lindi

Hi again....AA&D is the Attacking Anxiety and Depression program. Do you have it? It is the best! If you dont have it, let us all know so we can tell you about it. I highly recommend it =)

Hi Tulip, Yes, of course i have it! The initials AA&D just didn't register with me!! I always refer to this program as the Midwest Center program. Silly me! Duh!!!!! I'm laughing right now. Okey Dokey, see ya later. Linda

Hi Lindi,
This is backcomb and I just read your topic in this forum. Boy can I ever relate to you. I had a horrible childhood so when I was about 17 I had alot of stomach problems and ulcers. So my doctor put me on 5 mg. of librium 4 times a day. Praise God the most I ever took was 1 a day for 17 years. I started with this problem when I was 34. I came to know the Lord through this struggle. I am a Christian. When I did I decided I didn't need medication anymore and like an idiot I quit cold turkey. I have talked to a couple doctors since then and one told me they have never known anyone to be able to do that. You are supposed to wean off them gradually. Wow I never experienced what I experienced from withdrawing from that after all those years. Everday I felt like I was literally climbing out of my skin. Like you, no one had a clue what I was feeling. It was a living HELL!!!! Looking back on it now I don't have a clue how I did it. The one doctor says alot of people have seizures and all kinds of side affects. I was working at the time. We have our own business it is a beauty shop. I had to deal with the public everyday while feeling like I was a basket case.I work 5 days a week, and my husband and I work together. We have been in business 23 years.There is 8 of us total, and we have a boutique too in the salon!!!
I have had this problem 17 years. Iam in the forum under fear of driving. Topic 3. It is a hot topic, ha, ha.
I don't think there is a way in the world how we could ever convey to anyone what this whole thing is like. I totally agree with you that this forum is worth every penny. Just to be able to finally relate to people who can UNDERSTAND!!!! Most people think it's like a cold or something that it goes away in a day or two. They have no idea when we say anxiety the kind of anxiety we are talking about. I used to think like Mike in the tapes if only I could have a broken arm or something that showed. No one in a million years would ever believe I have this problem. Even people I share it with don't beleive me, cus I look sooo together on the outside. I should be able to win a academy award or something.
Are you married? Do you have any children??? What is your area of struggle. The reason I ask people in the forum that question is because if I can give any piece of helpful advice I will certainly do that.
I sure hope you continue to get blessed by this forum. I am going to share a special prayer with you that I shared with a couple people. May today there be peace within you. May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be. I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly!!!! God Bless you Backcomb I hope that encourages you in some way, it sure did me. Bye Have a great day tommorrow, Hope to hear from you

Dear Backcomb, Wow!!! What a treat to receive your lengthy and wonderful reply!! I had told myself to stay off this computer for the rest of this evening, and here i am, at 1:30 a.m. So glad i turned it on again, to find you here! (i have had this machine for only 4 weeks or so and have never,ever used a computer prior to this, so it's still magic and i'm drawn to it like a magnet!) Well, let's see if i'm awake enough to address all that you wrote. First of all, i wonder...whenever i see your name..."Backcomb"... why did she choose that? And i always picture a kind of 1950's hairdo, like what they called 'a duck's ass'? What a name for a hairdo!! Anyway, now i understand, you work in a hair salon. I've also noticed that 'hot topic' Fear of Driving, and had a quick look at it once. I am one of those people who has never driven a car! (not due to the panic disorder...just never did) So, you were taking librium...same type of pill as valium. Yes, feeling like you've got to crawl out of your skin...that was definately one of the symptoms i felt. I also went off 7 years, or was it 8, of valium (4 pills a day) COLD TURKEY. And that was at a facility for drug withdrawal!! They had no idea what was happening to me and actually tried to put me back ON IT! That's much too long a story to tell on this forum. Symptoms were myriad! What happened to me was termed a 'psychotic state'. The feelings you described, and also hallucinations, my hair thickening, my stomach bloating, became skinny (what a way to finally loose weight!! ha ha) audio-hallucinations as well, like a constant buzzing that began in the head and worked it's way down to my belly and just stayed there! People looked one-dimensional, like cardboard, i had no blance at all, so i could hardly move around...floor and ceiling toppling over, my body shook uncontrollably, the very worst of it for me was the state of mind i was in which is so difficult to put into words. It was as if my brain was frozen. I was unable to have a thought! The sound of a piece of cutlery being put down on the table sounded like a bomb! I lived in this nightmarish hell for two entire years. (The doctor who prescribed valium told me was about as harmful as aspirin!) I ALSO have no idea how i survived that. The doctors didn't think i would. It was after those two years of hell passed, that i feel my entire life started over. I then had one year of no panic attacks (i was put on the valium for these attacks in the first place!) and then, in 1982, BOOM! It returned with a vengeance. Okay, on that topic, i'll stop right here. No way to keep writing on and on about the next 19 years! I wrote an article and was interviewed after all of that, for The Women's Healthsharing Magazine on Valium Withdrawal. I also knew what Mike meant (on the tapes) when he said he would have rather had a broken arm! During the two years i've just described, i recall wishing i had cancer instead! With that, as with the years of panic disorder and agoraphobia, very few could comprehend. My immediate family only got fed up with me, and said things like "just ignore it". Well, never mind all that. Laying blame is not of concern to me. You asked if i'm married. Well, i was married once for 9 years to a wonderful guy. To this day, we are like family...good friends. The next question was do i have any children. Paul (my x-husband) and i DID have a baby (well, i did anyway!) and this baby, we gave up to adoption. This occured when i was 20 yrs. old and it was during this pregnancy when these bizarre panic episodes first happened. (this is also a long story) Paul and I (on separate occasions) met our son..10 years ago. I love him to bits and pieces and he is a huge part of my life now. You asked about my area of struggle. *****anyone else reading this....i guess i should have replied to this by email, as it's quite long. Please move on, if this is tedious!**** My area of struggle regarding why i have this recovery program in my possession, is chronic panic disorder since the age of 20...covered up, of course, with 8 yrs. of valium...which allowed me to travel and be completely mobile during those 8 yrs. Lived in England, Denmark and Israel. Went home to visit all the time (to Montreal) and worked as well. In 1982, as i said, it all returned and i was housebound with terror...for about 2 years. Won't go into the last 18 yrs. now!!! So, that's the area of struggle. I've been through my own therapy, at that's something that i can pick up at any time, and i am also a therapist myself, believe it or not!! A psychotherapist and addiction counsellor. I also have sold my artwork for many years...haven't done much of it for some time now. Very soon my added area of struggle will be trying to quit smoking...that's something i do not look forward to!! (my computer just now told me that the time has suddenly changed from 2:00 to 3:00 a.m. God Lord!) Thank you for the beautiful prayer! At this time, it was something i could genuinely take in. I've had my own relationship with a Higher Power, which i call God, for about 20 years...i would say - the single, most important aspect of my life. And yes, i agree, we must all be angels of one sort or another, since at our CORE is pure love, freedom and peace, which is eternally ours. I believe that to be true and i've even had a few experiences, when i have 'known' that place in myself. I love that part of what you said..."when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly"...which implies that we once 'knew'! Okay, that's it. If there are lots of spelling errors, it's cause i'm exhausted. Never wrote such a long reply! God bless you too and have a wonderful Sunday. Lindi xo

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Linda

Hi Lindi,
I just read your reply and enjoyed hearing from you. I cannot believe all you have bern through and I know like myself you probably have just scratched the surface. We would need to write a book like Lucinda to tell all, right? That is so funny about you just learning to use a computer. Our two kids have been bugging us for years to learn so this Christmas we bought one. It was just about the time I signed on for this program. What a blessing this forum has been. If we wouldn't have gotten it I would of missed out on so much. I, like you said, can't seem to get enough of it. For so long about 17 years there has never been anyone to share all this with, I truly think it helps to be able to talk about it without feeling dumb.
I am so glad that you are able to be part of your son's life. Where does he live, do you get to see him often? Do you plan to ever try and start driving? I bet with everything you have been through there is nothing else you could possibly Not be able to do. You totally are a SUVIVIOR!!!, and definetly not a quitter. I have complete faith in you and if I can be of any encouragement let me know.
I just wanted to say hello, and I hope you are having a good day. My husband is getting ready to play in a golf tournament. He played yesterday too!! It is a two day tournament. I am going to the tanning salon, I am starting to work on a tan. When I first started doing it I was afraid, I don't even know why.I guess it was because it was something new. I didn't like the feeling of beeing trapped. It feels like as if you are in a coffin. Iam fine with it now. I conquered my fear. I actually am able to relax and enjoy it. It takes me awhile to get tan cus I am very fair.
Well I'll let you go Bye, Backcomb

Hi again Backcomb, This will be a quicky, as opposed to the "book" i delivered to you last night!! Company coming over very soon. My son lives in Toronto as well...that's where i was living when i gave birth. I do see him quite often and get along just great with his mother and now, his wife. (the father who brought him up died last year at 54.) As to your question: do i ever plan to drive? I really can't see it! However, who knows...stranger things have happened! Thank you so very much for your offer of support and encouragement, should i need it. God bless and all the best, Lindi

Hi Lindi and Backcomb: I have enjoyed reading your journeys. Wow, Lindi, you can conquer anything now after going through all that. Are you afraid of any medications now because of that drug withdrawal. I was put on a medication for to control mood swings and it just makes me sleep all the time which makes me feel worse because I am missing a lot of living. I have been able to relate with Lindi and Nurny very much. I never learned how to drive because I was in 7 car accidents before the age of 16 and was terrified to get behind the wheel. I thought that was my only fear up until a few years ago when I started getting full blown panic attacks. I am not getting them now because of the program, knowing that I was the one that was creating them. Now, I want to get over the numbness and feeling hopeless. I want to know what it feels like to be well and better again. I am a mother of 4 and wife of a good man. I belong to a wonderful church who are praying for me constantly. I want to be able to do things not frantically or so desperately. The program for me now has been totally overwhelming because of the discipline it takes to get better. I was quite disciplined before but now I am trying to get the energy up to be. I also am receiving too much information and it is overloading my mind. What do you do when that happens?? I am hanging on and I love knowing that I am not alone and that there is hope. I want to see myself well and enjoying life again with my family and friends. I thaank God for all of you because no body that I know can relate to me. They try to understand and say "get over it". Don't they know I would if I could, Now I will get the skills to get over it. We have to believe for the best for each of us. Love Mo.

Hi Mo,
I just read your reply I sure hate to hear that you are really struggling. First of all never say you can't say you haven't learned how to yet. Secondly if you haven't read it yet get the book, What Do You Say To Yourself When You Talk To Yourself, by Shad Helstetter,Ph.D. It is an awesome book and I think it would really help you. There is another one called how to stop worrying and start living. I haven't started that yet though. I have alot that I'm already doing. I personally from all I've been through I feel the key to our recovery is tape 3. Our self talk is the whole problem. Once we can reprogram our brain and put positive things in there it will change our whole life. You know what they say if we keep doing everything the same we will keep getting the same results. I know this is hard but we are really strong people never under estimate yourself. Be careful not to eat too much sugar especially if you don't have alot of energy due to the depression. Where are you in the program? How long have you been dealing with this? Did you say you have 4 children? I have written a few people so I'm starting to get mixed up with who's who.
I will be praying for you that you start to get better. I would be glad to support you whenever you need to chat. I have a pray for you, I am a Christian and one of my friends sent it to me. May today there be peace within you. May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be. I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
God Bless you Bye for now, Backcomb

Hi Mo! First of all, let me remind you that you really are not alone!! Try to keep that in mind. You asked me if i am afraid of any medication, due to that drug withdrawal many years ago. I WAS very afraid to take ANYTHING at all after that. And then i realized that anti-depressants (some can also help a bit with anxiety too) were non-addictive. So, years ago i took imipramine for a while. About 8 yrs. ago, after one year of suffering with a very powerful depression, i agreed to try Zoloft (anti-depressant). For me, it was a life saver! I was out of a black hole within the week. (not the same effect for everyone of course) Was on that for 8 months. No withdrawal from that. It's best to inform yourself about medications (try not to do it in a neurotic, scary way! ha ha) if you aren't sure. I can tell you that some med's are enormously helpful and non-addictive, and others are addictive and can cause severe withdrawal later on. So, it's good to make 'informed' decisions. Wow!!! Seven car accidents!! Well, who could blame you for not wanting to drive again! Although...after you are feeling much stronger, who knows! Anything is possible. You mention feeling numb and hopeless. I know that one! We really can go 'numb' when we feel we're dealing with too much! The body kinda just 'turns off'. Do you have any spiritual belief in your life. For myself, since 1982, this aspect has kept me hopeful, EVEN WHEN i felt hopeless!! I understand that you find the program overwhelming...yes, it takes some discipline to get better and it does require energy...you are right about that. Receiving too much information (as you put it) and the mind becoming overloaded...when you are already anxious, numb, feeling hopeless, etc....is a perfectly normal reaction. You asked "what can i do?" So, it's about slowing down, really slowing down. You CAN'T do all of this right now, even someone in better shape couldn't do that. When i first received this program, about 8 months ago, i also looked at it and thought...my God! Too many things to do here! It's just too much! How will i ever discipline myself to do things that i find boring and tedious......Where will i find the energy? I tried and failed many,many times and even sorta gave up, until 4 weeks ago. Something happened inside of me, when i found this Forum and realized i could write to the Centre...that i could receive guidance and help whenever i'm stuck. Somehow, for me, doing this work in isolation....i was not motivated enough. I'd get motivated, and then this would disappear. I've been able to sustain this motivation now for a month, and EVEN ON A BAD DAY, when i cannot seem to make myself do much of anything with the program...as with this past Sunday...i tell myself "It's okay, you've been doing so great, and it's okay that you're feeling awful today...so what! No big deal. Allow yourself to just feel however you feel. Can't hurt you. etc..." The thing is, i actually believe all this self-talk to be true. There is something very powerful in giving up fighting how i feel or think, giving up running away from it all, and just ALLOWING whatever is going on within me to be there, and come to pass. ....So, i finally DID get the energy i needed to actually WANT to practice the lessons. I started over the program from the beginning and again, i am on lesson 4 this week. You don't need to do all of it in one day. Don't compare yourself to how somebody else is doing with it. Do whatever you can. Maybe for today, it'll be one relaxation tape and reading the lesson. Whatever you can manage. You have to respect that your mind feels overloaded. Give yourself a small goal, a tiny one, one that is possible. And yes, i know plenty of people who say "just get over it", like my own family. What can ya do!! That can be a tough one when we're feeling sensitive and 'down'. When you feel stronger and beter with yourself, it will still be sad, but won't effect you so much anymore. Years ago, when i was in that depression, i saw maybe 2 or 3 people of my choosing, and stayed away from those who judged. I could not afford extra difficulties on top of what i already felt. When i got alot better, i widened my circle again. Okey Dokey, gotta go now. I hope this has helped a little bit. Keep on writing on the forum...lots of loving, caring and helpful people here. God bless, Lindi

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Linda