Hi everyone! I would so much appreciate your experience and feedback on this. It has been suggested to me that in practicing working through panic attacks, or anticipation of them...that 'distance' is not a factor. In other words, that i should allow myself to go anywhere, because what matters is HOW i deal with the thoughts and feelings that create and keep panic going. Okay, this makes sense to me (in my intellectual understanding) because no PLACE or THING creates panic! I know this in my head. I recently was fantasizing about taking a trip home to Montreal, wishing i could. The truth of the matter is, i have had panic attacks running my life for well over 20 years, and have recently, with the help of this program, been out there practicing again.(had tried and given up many times in the past) So that, at this point in time, when i am on my own....i walk about 4 to 5 blocks from home. When with a friend, a little further. Within THIS distance from home, i have PLENTY to deal with! I had put a question to the Midwest Center...."what about the idea of my going to Montreal, when i am able to walk just these few blocks right now?" The reply was "I think Montreal is a great idea! It doesn't matter how far you go, it's how you deal with the feelings,etc.") Well, I cannot see this applying to me right now! When, just yesterday, in another practice-walk, i was just 4 blocks from home and dealing with the panic symptoms, and i realized....at the point i'm at right now, i STILL think (even though i really try NOT to) of how far away i am from home. And when the panic rises, 'home' feels VERY far away, even 4 blocks away! Obvioulsy, deep down inside of me, i am not yet at a place where i truly BELIEVE i am my own safe PLACE....close to home still has it's hold on me. I know this can change and when it does, i will be celebrating with all my heart and soul!!!! So, the idea of going to Montreal, or even 10 blocks away from home feels like way too much for me. If i FELT that i could work through the attacks...if i KNEW that....then okay, I'd be going anywhere!! But the truth is, i'm not SURE of that! I fear i just might get 'stuck' in the hell i am familiar with. I don't have the knowledge inside of me that i can deal with this, wherever i am!!! So, i am asking what other people's experience is with this notion....that distance is not a factor. Doesn't that apply AFTER we have changed something fundamental within us....a BELIEF that we can successfully work through it, every time??? There are so many places i want to go....i truly dislike being in this filthy, humid city during the summer and would LOVE to feel able enough to get into the country here and there. Don't we need a fair degree of dependence on ourselves (to come through for ourselves when panic arises) in order to just go anywhere???? Thank you so much for any advice or experience you have with this. Have a great weekend! Lindi

------------------
Linda

I think that I agree with you and the MWC on this one.

With the MWC because we do need to push ourselves to get out there and experience the joy and pleasures of what life has to offer. This can be scary, but the rewards are plenty.

With you because I do agree that the better we feel, and the more progress we make, the more confident we become in taking trips and facing challenges.

Both of these are great growing experiences.

I have relatives in Montreal. I haven't been there in about 2 years, since I started getting anxiety. But I have plans of going this month or summer there for a quick visit.
I do like to be home when hit with anxiety, and I've wondered how I would react in Montreal or, anywhere far from home in this situation.

...On a good day I'm willing to take the chance.

Keep up your practice walks!

Lindi,

I was one of those who could not leave my house at the height of my panic attacks. You see, I was so afraid that someone would take my kids. I was so afraid that if I left my house, I would not find my way back. Well, my friends would not allow me to do that. One of them would watch my children while the others would take me out.

That year, my friend insisted that we go back to Florida. The year before, we had gone for the first time, and had had such a tremendous time, that we had made reservations a year in advance to go back. At the time I couldn't even drive, but we went. As the time drew near for us to leave, I had such anticipatory anxiety. I had what-ifed myself to death. A funny thing happened. The farther south we drove, the less tense I became. I could not believe how relaxed I was when we checked into the condo. I remember having a few small waves, but nothing really major. Then, as we came north, I began to get more tense with every mile. When I came home, my anxiety returned. The next year, I took 47 people to Toronto, including my eighth grade class. Once again I did the classic what ifs before we left. When we got there, I was fine, and enjoyed every minute,

When I am away, the normal things that cause me anxiety are not there. I am able to tuck them neatly away. I have even been able to deal with them better. Sometimes we need to get away. It enables us to relax and regroup.

Don't forget that the we remember things by sights, sounds, and smells. That doesn't just go for good memories. It also is true for our anxiety. When you go away, you change the sight, the sounds and the smells. You give yourself new and different stimuli to process. The one thing that I remember very vividly from that first vacation was Sanibel Island and its peacefulness. I remember after that, that whenever I was beginning to get anxious, I would close my eyes and visualize Sanibel. It would make me relax and bring a smile to my face.

No one can tell you to go to Montreal, or any other place. That's up to you to decide. All I can tell you is that I live for my vacations. I love the time that I get to spend alone with my family without the stressors of the phone and the mail. Instead of thinking about all the bad things that can happen, get some tour books and look at the attractions. Who knows you just might have fun.

DW

Hi Cutufa and D.W. Thank's for the reply. Yes, regarding the joys and pleasures life has to offer....when i am able to move out of the vicinity of where i live, even two blocks further than i have been for years....i experience joy and even elation, just to be somewhere different!! And of course..there's a whole world out there to enjoy, the world i lived in and travelled so freely in, up until 30 years ago! (that is always difficult to say or to see in writing....30 years!) It's really 20 years that i have been radically immobilized, because i took valium for the first 10 years, and was able to carry on and even live overseas, in England, in Denmark and Israel. My entire life started over from scratch, after i went through valium withdrawal and what was called a 'psychotic break' from this withdrawal. That's a long story i no longer think about. I'm trying to give a realistic view of where i'm coming from regarding the area of panic. It's really quite bizarre...as it's been brought to my attention by close friends....that i have lived in such a tiny world for so many years, and yet i work as a counsellor (addiction and therapy), organize craft shows (in the area obviously) and 'appear'...to anyone who doesn't know me) to be such a gregarious, vivacious, outgoing, spirited individual, who enjoys life SO MUCH! My x-boyfriend and my x-husband (friends with both!) remark that they don't know how i keep up my spirits, living in the way i do! When it comes to dealing with panic attacks, I am like a little baby, dealing with sheer terror. Even now, when i KNOW that it cannot hurt me! I understand that having something like this for SO LONG is going to take some time. There's a posting on this forum about the difference between Coping and Recovery. Interesting topic. And with the area of dealing with panic attacks, i can see that i am still 'coping'....so to suddenly just take myself out of my little world and travel to another city and spend all that time COPING, i can tell you....it did me in the last time i did that....about 6 yrs. ago. I went there for my parent's 50th wedding anniversary party...when i returned home, people said "Wow Linda! You must want to try that again!" I replied "Are you crazy!" I was beyond exhaustion from having to deal with enormous panic, almost constantly....with a few breaks here and there. So that, at THAT POINT, i truly wasn't able to enjoy myself very much!! (please understand, i am not complaining, i am telling you how it's been) Just yesterday, out for another 'practice walk' with a friend, was in an area called Yorkville, very busy, trendy part of town....i did everything i know how to do....the 6 steps which i practice ALOT, all of it.....and somehow, when the threat of full-blown panic comes up, i can't seem to find the words, the comfort-talk,etc.. the one and only thing i can do is to make my body go limp, but the truth is, i can't wait to get out of there!! Yes, that's still where i'm at. I've also had really good experiences with practice walks since i began this program, and when THAT happens, i feel SO GREAT. I admit i have to deal with how discouraged i sometimes feel....because it seems this will take such a long time. When i'm out there dealing with the panic, i cannot even IMAGINE being able to go any further away!!!! So, i believe that i need to feel a degree of Confidence before i can ship myself off to another city! (i wish i was wrong about this,and could just go....believe me!) D.W.....so interesting how you have an absence of fear when you are away! That makes sense to me. However, so far that hasn't happened for me. When the day comes that i can say "I live for my vacations", something will have changed for me on such a fundamental level and i will rejoice!!!! And, of course, i agree "that we should get away", if i felt that were possible, i'd have been doing that all these years. I agree with everything you both wrote...we DO need new and different 'stimuli'....absolutely! It's so important. Where i am at presently.... i am doing whatever i possibly can to walk myself into new stimuli, and sometimes it feels like 'culture shock'.....i've been away for so long! I haven't been to a movie theatre for so many years and may attempt this in a few days....the closest cinema to my home. I may end up staying or leaving. The last time i tried it, just the SOUND (booming) and all the people....created a constant adrenelin rush within me, which lasted the entire two hours of the movie. Please forgive me for going on and on, i have to admit that i am feelling very frustrated, because i (so far) cannot seem to work these steps for Panic..the minute i go past my usual walking area. It hurts inside, i feel so upset even as i write this....that even with BELIEVING completely that recovery is possible, i STILL come face to face, all the time, with the inability to be free! This is how i feel right now and that too, will change. Talk with you later, and thank you both for taking the time to write. This is not a Negative Attitude, i use positive self-talk all the time and it makes a HUGE difference. It's just how i'm feeling today. God bless, Lindi

------------------
Linda

Hi Lindi,

What I have come to learn is that there really is no right time to try new things. I watched the tapes, I learned the tools to deal with the fear of leaving the safety of home, and the way I did it was to just do it. It isn't easy, but it can be done. Practice, practice, and more practice mixed in w/lots of patience

It is easier for me to deal with the anxious feelings at home, or near home. This is because I labeled my home as my 'safe place', well I now know no matter where I go is 'safe' as I have the tools from this Program to apply. I challenged myself and I would go further and further from my 'safe place' and yes the feelings came...but I kept telling myself that it is ok, it will pass, I will be so proud of myself for trying, and I would feel the anxiety and do it anyway. Very, very hard I know. I still have to remind myself at times that I am my own safe person/place and I won't embarass myself as people really don't pay attention to us the way we think that they do...we are so sensitive we think we are the center of attention, but I look at it this way: Say if I am in the grocery store...there may be another person there w/anxiety/panic disorder there practicing too, one does not know this. No one is 'watching us'...we only perceive it as such.

Just keep trying and never give up...even if you have to turn back and go home...so what...turn back and go home but praise yourself for trying and even if you walk two steps further one day...that is progress and over time those two steps will turn into four steps, eight steps, a few block, and eventually you will be in Montreal

Take care

------------------
~Angel

quote:

All the resources in the world, by themselves, will not get you there. Opportunity alone will not get you there. You must decide to get yourself there, than it will happen.

Lindi,

I do understand where you are coming from. I couldn't go anywhere unless someone I trusted would take me. That included to work and back. I would cry during my prep periods and at liturgies between the times I had to play or sing. Then I began to put good minutes together and then good hours etc. Then I started to work on distance. I live only about 4 blocks from each job. I couldn't drive I was so panicked. When I started to drive again. I was excited when I could drive even 4 blocks. I still sometimes have a problem being alone. I might enjoy the first fifteen minutes, then I start getting anxious. I'm still not quite to the point where I am comfortable with myself.

I know that you will get better, and it will get easier. I think that it just gets comfortable and then we begin taking the distance for granted again. When I took my son to college and had to drive back without him, I did a lot of what ifing. Now I can get in the car and do that trip and not think a second thought about it. You will get there. Don't give up. Keep practicing, even if you really want to skip a day of walking, don't. Whenever the urge hits you to try a few more steps in another block, try it. So what if you can't do another whole one at a time. Babies learn to walk one step at a time. That is how we will regain our freedom from this...one step at a time.

I will be praying for you so that you will come one step closer to freedom and one step closer to inner peace.

DW

Angel,

Thank you Thank you Thank you for the quote. You have no idea how much that quote has affected me and how much it has helped give me the strength to do something that I have to do.

DW

Lindi,
I'm in Toronto too. I know Yorkville...

Like I said before, keep up the practice walks and take one or two steps further each time. I mean you got yourself this far on your walks so you must be doing somethig right. I know how frustrating this whole thing must be but keep up it. Don't give up. Don't let this thing control your life.

Angels quote is right on. I'm going to make copies of it and post them all over the place for inspiration.

Dear Angel, DW and Cutufa, God bless you all for your heart-warming messages to me yesterday!! I surely needed that! Angel, there's no getting around it.....practice, practice, practice and LOADS of patience. Sometimes i am able to do as you do, walking through the panic as i go further, using the comforting self-talk, and at other times i am unable to find the words, or think at all! My brain just seizes up, and no matter how much I have learned, i cannot (yet) feel that i am my safe place....my 'guts' feel only to run. I would say that after having this for 30 years, it would make sense that walking freely out there....everywhere....feels foreign and still unreliable to me. I so much appreciate hearing "never give up"....right now i need to hear that. It touched me, when i read: 4 steps, 8 steps, a few blocks, and then Montreal! DW: You also asked me "not to give up" and i could feel the caring and compassion in your writing....it really got to me. Such a loving letter. And i honestly appreciate the prayers...i believe their is true magic in prayers, especially when the recipient (that's me) is open to them...and i am. CUTUFA: Well, we both live in the same city!! And you wrote "don't give up" too! I'm not going to give up, as i have done many times before. You said "Don't let this thing control your life" and i love you for saying that!! Can't really put how that made me feel...into words. It was very powerful. I had a dream a couple of nights ago (sometimes i can understand them, symbolically, very easily) that showed me that Fear was not going to hang around with me anymore, because it saw that I was in control and it didn't trust me! And i knew that it shouldn't trust me. I would have all the control. Great dream, huh? Often, i have found my dreams tell me things BEFORE they happen. TO ALL OF YOU, my thank's for all your words. Over all these years, i have rarely felt the pain of having lived this way for more than half of my life. Whenever I DID bring into my full awareness...how i have been living, in this tiny world, and when i remembered who i had been before, travelling all over the world, i would feel so devestated. But i had become complacent, because nothing i had tried (and i REALLY tried) had helped me before. People who had known me BEFORE all of this, were so sad and thought it was tragic that i was living this way. And i had begun to just accept it. And now, here i go again, making a big effort to overcome was 'seemed' impossible. God bless us all. I know we all BELIEVE success can and will happen...it's the timing we can't be sure of. Talk with you again. love.....Lindi