hello all. i just wanted to share a little growth spurt of mine. yesterday i was watching oprah and her dr. phil mentioned something about what lucinda calls secondary gains. i dont know how to explain this, but its like when you hear something 50 times from one person and then someone different says it...and somewhere in your head a light bulb goes off, well i guess thats what happened. it woke something up in me. he said we get some kind of pay off for everything we do. even if its negative and it makes us miserable we get some kind of positive payoff from it or else we woulden't do it. for me i realize that my anxiety is my excuse not to move onto that next step in my life( college , i'm 22 years old)i used to think that the fear of making that big change would be too painful, so i put it off time after time. i allowed my obsessive thoughts to hang around and scare me for way too long. i didnt let myself believe that i was getting something out of it all. now i realize that i am. any way after i made a choice to be very concious of my thoughts it made me " feel" good and i loved it! i woke up today feeling hopeful, full of joy and ready for the world. i wanted to share my positivity, but i thought it would be a little cheesy to share it with the people that i live with, so i thought of all you guys.....who i know (hope)understand what im saying. anyways thats it . i thank above everyday for the program and positive people like you all. thanks for listening. much peace and love to you all.

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I'm also 22 and attending college. I know exactly what you're saying. My secondary gain is an excuse not to do the things that i'm avoiding; the things that produce anxiety for me. Things like socializing with my friends, talking on the phone, and getting up in front of people and talking. I first listened to the secondary gains tape and thought"hhmmm, what am i getting out of this" and knew right away. I'm not getting any special attention or favors done for me, but what i am getting is an excuse not to make any big decisions or initiate an anxiety producing situation(that might be good practice for me). Once i realized this, i felt more obligated to do the things i should be doing. This was anxiety producing at first but i am getting used to it and feel better each time i know i've done the right thing. What lesson are you on now? I am on 13. I can't believe i'm almost done. Well, good luck to you. Take care
Maddy

Missy & Maddy
I'm now 28 but I first experienced intense anxiety when I was 22 and in school also. Unfortunately I chose the flight reaction, I wasn't aware I had the disorder but I naturally did what made the anxiety subside, I took a semester off, which turned to a year, which turned to 4 years. My anxiety came back this year and I know it's because of the fear of taking the next step in my life again. And the fact that I didn't finish school just adds to the pressure. The reason I'm writing this is to encourage you to continue school and doing the program. I'm really glad I found it and I wish I would have had it then. Unfortunately we can't change the past but we do control the future. That's why I'm reapplying to go back to school. I'd like to share a quote I got from this site.

"...and the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud, was more painful than the risk it took to blossom..."
--Anais Nin


Take care... Vince

quote:

Originally posted by Maddy:
I'm also 22 and attending college. I know exactly what you're saying. My secondary gain is an excuse not to do the things that i'm avoiding; the things that produce anxiety for me. Things like socializing with my friends, talking on the phone, and getting up in front of people and talking. I first listened to the secondary gains tape and thought"hhmmm, what am i getting out of this" and knew right away. I'm not getting any special attention or favors done for me, but what i am getting is an excuse not to make any big decisions or initiate an anxiety producing situation(that might be good practice for me). Once i realized this, i felt more obligated to do the things i should be doing. This was anxiety producing at first but i am getting used to it and feel better each time i know i've done the right thing. What lesson are you on now? I am on 13. I can't believe i'm almost done. Well, good luck to you. Take care
Maddy

dear maddy i have to thank you so much for your response. to answer your question i finished the program almost 2 years ago. when i finished it was amazing, i felt so good, i cant even explain but your almost there so you know. it wasn't until last summer that i began doing all the college stuff for this coming september and the closer it gets the more my symptoms "appear". this is something that not only do i feel i have to do but i really want to do. but i must admit for everything that excites me about the experience, theres enough that scares me too. the whole sitting in a classroom thing with "strangers" any way im not gonna focus in the negative. so the program has come into play again for me, and i m just so thankful i have it, and once i discovered this website it was like another gift. it is truly just what i need. let me know how you progress. much love-missy

quote:

Originally posted by Vince:
Missy & Maddy
I'm now 28 but I first experienced intense anxiety when I was 22 and in school also. Unfortunately I chose the flight reaction, I wasn't aware I had the disorder but I naturally did what made the anxiety subside, I took a semester off, which turned to a year, which turned to 4 years. My anxiety came back this year and I know it's because of the fear of taking the next step in my life again. And the fact that I didn't finish school just adds to the pressure. The reason I'm writing this is to encourage you to continue school and doing the program. I'm really glad I found it and I wish I would have had it then. Unfortunately we can't change the past but we do control the future. That's why I'm reapplying to go back to school. I'd like to share a quote I got from this site.

"...and the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud, was more painful than the risk it took to blossom..."
--Anais Nin


Take care... Vince

hello vince, thanks for your response and that quote,its beautiful, i have read that somewhere once before, theres so much truth to it. i was wondering have you finished the program already? i have, its almost 2 years now. im starting school in the fall though and its a new place, and so its brought back some of those old feelings, but i'll be alright because im excited and i really cant wait to go back to school and meet new people and blah blah blah. im so happy that i found this website where i can share my feelings and everyone understands, you know? i feel so comfortable here, its just what i needed. thanks for listening. peace. much love-missy-

Missy,
I haven't finished the program, I'm starting session 10 today on obsessive thinking. It's been a growing journey, filled with many peaks and valleys as I'm sure you know, but even though it gets tough at times I'm excited about the person I'm becoming. Or better yet, I'm proud the real me is beginning to manifest himself.
So you finished 2 years ago? Has your life changed since you first began the program? Was your anxiety mild or moderate? Do you believe you have "recovered"? Sorry for all the questions but I'm sure you can relate to my curiosity.
Keep up the positive vibe.. Vince

quote:

Originally posted by Vince:
Missy,
I haven't finished the program, I'm starting session 10 today on obsessive thinking. It's been a growing journey, filled with many peaks and valleys as I'm sure you know, but even though it gets tough at times I'm excited about the person I'm becoming. Or better yet, I'm proud the real me is beginning to manifest himself.
So you finished 2 years ago? Has your life changed since you first began the program? Was your anxiety mild or moderate? Do you believe you have "recovered"? Sorry for all the questions but I'm sure you can relate to my curiosity.
Keep up the positive vibe.. Vince

hey vince,
i would have to say that its not my life that has changed, its me. the person on the inside has changed, when i had anxiety and depression, i was just existing in this world. i did, said, wore, ate whatever everyone else was doing. on the outside im sure that i appeared fine, but inside i was a true mess. i would have to say that my anxiety was pretty extreme. it was with me when i woke up and continued through my days and went to sleep with me at night. now i know who I am and better yet , i like me. and i dont care what other people think. my head is clear (for the most part). i guess i am "recovered" . even though i personally believe that you can always keep going, self discovery is an on going process it gets better and better all the time. i still catch negative thoughts in my head, i just take them out and turn them around and stick something positive in there instead. i cant remember the last time i had a panic attack, panic just does not scare me anymore. anxiety does not scare me, and im damn glad for that because anxiety is gonna be with me the rest of my life. its a human emotion, thanks to the program i know what it is and i deal with it beautifully. this subject (recovery) i could really go on and on about because i feel so passionate about the changes that took place inside of me, but i must stop because i have to go to work. but ill continue again soon. good luck to you ... much love and blessings missy

Hi all of you,
Thanks for all your great replies.You all had so much good stuff to share. I too can relate to the secondary gains of staying stuck. I loved the quote that you posted Vince, I wrote it down. It was just what I needed for today. Thankyou.....
You all are quite a bit younger than I. I started problems with this when I was 34. I have been dealing with it off and on for 17 years. For the most part I am alot better, but I will admit I have some issues still. Like driving, and seperation anxiety. My died when I was 10 and my brother was 7 years older. My mother fell apart after it happened and she coudn't cope. She went out everynight til about 4 in the morning. I was really scared to be alone. That fear has always been with me.I felt after my dad died it was as though she did too, cus she was never there after that, before that she was a great mom.
I am on the road again I have gotten up to 15 miles, I was driving and practicing everyday. I have so much physical pain with it, cus I guess I tighten up really really bad even though I try and relax. How did you guys get to the point where you no longer fear the anxiety. I always am afraid to drive to far from home, cus my fear is I won't be able to get back. I know we are supoosed to be our own safe place. I even have a car phone. I had gone 1 whole year and my driving was going really good about 2 years ago and then all of a sudden I had a horrible attack once again, and it scared the --- out of me. Needless to say it started the whole mess all over. I think I'm afraid of putting myself through all the pain and anxiety to get to the other side and then what if I have a bad attack again. I guess I need to accept it huh? I let that setback a couple years ago take me right back to the beginning. If any of you guys have any suggestions for me it would be much appreciated. I now Just do it!!!!!!
I am so glad to hear that you all sound good and that the program has been beneficial to all. Thanks for listening to all my blabbing. I hope to hear from you all. Thanks and God Bless,Backcomb

hey backcomb
i know how you are feeling, i had problems driving. i had a major problem with driving over this one bridge that i had to go back and forth over everyday (and still do). i would do practice runs at night when not many people were out. i would begin a mantra as soon as i got into the car because i would already feel panicky. something along the lines of i have to do this, nothing is going to hurt me... i used my controlled breathing. i also comforted myself A LOT with "its okay, its not a big deal" . Normally when i would go over this bridge i would feel the anxious body symptoms and my mind couldn't handle it & immediately i would start with the racing thoughts which would increase the body symptoms. in turn i felt horrible. anyway when i would do these "practice runs" the body symptoms would come, i would first notice them, acknowledge that they are there, but instead of freaking out i would comfort myself as much as possible with, out loud if i had to, it's okay, i can do this. after saying that over & over i began to believe it i suppose. and amazingly i would feel my body relax as well as my mind. and once you conquer it you conquer it. thats it there is no going back. because you realize the control and power that you have, and you begin to use it in other or all areas in your life. today i love driving, especially over bridges. i feel empowered. i believe in you, i believe in all of us. i think we'll all be okay. because we've all got hope, if we didn't have hope we wouldn't be here. ive come to realize that all you need is a little bit of hope to keep pushing you, soon you wont need to be pushed because youll fly. good luck,
blessings, missy

Missy,
First of all I apologize for not responding sooner but I forgot where this post was. I remember looking for it a while back but then gave up, I guess I usually don't read this forum. Anyways, thanks so much for answering my questions. You said the things I really wanted to hear, about changing in the inside, and about not fearing depression and anxiety anymore. Those are very encouraging words and I look forward to saying them myself someday. I'm doing a lot better these days, I think I have a handle on my anxiety, I can usually control it before it gets too intense. I still suffer from some of the symptoms though, the spacey feelings and derealization. I believe depression still lingers also, I use to also feel like I was just existing but I'm slowly digging myself out of that hole. Thanks again for sharing, definitely gives me hope. Take care.. Vince

Hey backcomb,
Sorry to hear about the things you had to deal with as a child, it seems that childhood traumas have a big deal to do with our anxiety today. I'm doing the program, seeing a therapist and I have also joined a support group which has helped me a lot. I don't think one has to do all these things to recover but I know that it's been working for me. This forum is a great way to get feedback from people who are suffering from this but meeting people in person and hearing their stories really helps, makes me feel better that I'm not alone and isolated. Are you seeing a therapist? Are you part of a group? If not I suggest you try it out, it's hard to work through our childhood traumas alone. Take care Vince

I have a question. Knowing the difference between whether it's I just don't want to do a particular thing, or it is my anxiety taking over again. Then I get confused, indecisive, then I decide not to do something If it is going to cause me too much conflict, and bring me down. Finding myself and making decisions seems at times to be a biggie for me. I am older, (not old) Sometimes, I believe, unless it is something super important for me to attend, like my son's wedding, for example, that maybe it is better not to put myself through this I don't agree totally with Midwest about facing everything to get over the anxiety. I have done many things anyway regardless of my anxiety, and have been miserable. If I don't have to put myself through it, I am not going to do it. I am not talking about big decisions, I am talking about events, whether or not to attend. Things like that. Thank you for reading this. Responses appreciated.

Dear Patticakes,

I am "older" too...I have found that if I feel fear then I need to re-think any decision. I am determined to acknowledge that fear is a good God-given emotion, but that I have based my whole life on it and I don't want to live that way any more. For me, it's ok to use fear to get to safety from a tornado but it's not ok not ok to start drinking vodka because there is a storm cloud on the horizon...I just can't live like that anymore.

If I truly don't want to attend an event because I'm tired, don't wish to participate in small talk...then fine. BUT, if I am being honest and the only reason I am not going is because I might get nervous...I go and I learn more about COPING with stress and anxiety.

At one time I thought I did not have to face my fear of flying. Afterall, where was little old me going? Well, Lucinda became very ill and was booked to do a television show in NYC, and turn around from NY and fly right out to Denver to do a seminar-guess what? Time to face it.

Scared? You better believe it! Motivated? You bet! I so badly wanted to give back for all that Lucinda had done for me, I had to face it for her and for me. I flew from Detroit to Laguardia, was picked up by a limo service, did the show at Lifetime (the one that Linda Dano hosted), was stuck in gridlock on the Queensboro bridge (with a very strange cabbie), flew to Denver and spoke with locked knees and gripping the podium - to 400 people and flew back... I think that's called flooding! I remained a fearful flyer for at least 8 more flights. I noticed that I was gradually loosening up. One time I took a peek out the window (couldn't do that before-too high)...how beautiful.

I still don't like bumpy flights or noises I don't recognize...but I like to fly. I'd have never known if I hadn't done the feared thing...

Just a thought or two, good luck, Carolyn