I feel guitly, who shall I blame.

I have been blamed and feel guilty

I blame my guilt.

Guilt is my blame.

Blame has brought me to guilt.

perhaps, Whom would guilt me should be blamed?

I should know, I blame myself for not being sure.

src

guilt is blames' blame.

No really, No one is talking about the distructive feelings of;

blame
Guilt
or shame.

I believe they are key in my unrealistic expectations of others and myself, as well as sources of anger and problems with assertiveness.

OK, so it's just a silly poem, but at least I have brought up these self-critical, destructive forces.

Anybody got a light to shine upon my darkness? Maybe you share some of these concerns in your own life? src

src,

I share in this problem. This is my biggest problem, I think. This is what immobilizes me at times, paralyzes me to the point I can't function at times.

I think the antidote or vaccine, if you will, is forgiveness to ourselves and others. If we forgive ourselves then guilt no longer can remain. This is a prison of our own making, of our own thinking. We don't have to wait on others to forgive us or stop blaming us. We can do that for ourselves no matter what anyone else thinks. So why am I still having a problem with this? Finding a good reason to forgive myself. I feel I deserve to suffer. But, for how long should my punishment be? A year, two years, three years, longer? And who wants me to suffer? Me only, nobody else. We have the key to our prison cell and we can walk out anytime we choose to. I'm trying.

Good post. I hope others can shed some light on this.

No posts to this thread reinforces the idea that I really "should" suffer because of my behavior and no one has an antidote to real, deserved guilt. But, I'm not going there.

These are my thoughts on feeling guilty when we have done something wrong. There is a good type of guilt which I will call remorse or regret which helps us know we have wronged someone else or ourselves, and there is a bad type of guilt which I will call self destructive guilt.

Remorse is constructive, gives us a desire to change and helps us learn from our mistakes. Self destructive guilt is self destructive, keeps us locked into our old way of behaving, keeps us from being able to change because it robs us of motivation and self esteem, and, therefore, we don't change or learn from our mistakes.

I am going to take a little out of Dr. Burns' book, "Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy", chapter chapter 8, Ways of Defeating Guilt.

"The belief that you are bad contributes to the 'bad behavior". Why is that?

"Change and learning occur most readily when you (a) recognize that an error has occurred and (b) develop a strategy for correcting the problem. An attitude of self-love and relaxation facilitates this, whereas guilt often interferes." I would add here that in order to have self-love we have to forgive ourselves for mistakes we make.

We have heard the phrase, "Hurt people hurt people." This goes along with what I have just stated. Refusing to forgive ourselves for mistakes in behavior keeps us locked into hurt, guilt, self destructive behavior and emotions, and it keeps us locked into repeating the very behavior which causes us to feel guilty. Briefly feeling remorse, not condemnation, gives us a desire to change the behavior. Forgiving ourselves empowers us to change and learn from our mistakes because we maintain self-love, self-esteem, and motivation.

Self-destructive guilt keeps us hurt and locked in to the behavior which caused our initial guilt. Constructive remorse along with forgiveness empowers us to change for the better. That's my take on guilt, blame, shame, and condemnation.

src,

I read your poem...it is NOT silly, it actually is a great expression of your thoughts and feelings in a literary form. I actually like that you can put your feelings into words so eloquently. I felt compelled to respond as I can remember feeling most of the same things because it is a vicious circle that causes US to feel bad, whether about ourselves and/or others, causes negative feelings all over the place, anger that leaves you stewing and steaming.

For me, it is not only having unrealistic expectations of others, but I needed to learn to have NO expectation of others. That was really hard at first because I am responsible, I try to be aware and courteous of others and I thought everyone else is, was or should be because I was raised to "always be considerate of others", but in reality that is NOT the case, it is the exception but not the rule. I see it everyday; people speeding and if I am not going fast enough I get tailgated or even have THE big "bird" waved at me. . Then there are people on the cell phone chatting loud enough to be heard several booths away like no one else is trying to converse, or their kids are completely out of control throwing food, screaming, kicking chairs and booths, running around the resturaunt while you are just trying to get a meal in and study between classes. Geez, I could go on! I just started to accept that others will be who they were, nice, thoughtful or rude and inconsiderate or do what they do without thinking over and over in my mind AND let it fester in me about how dare they be like that or do this. I still think those things (after all I am human) but instead of having anger associated with those types of thoughts, situations or people that may not "fit my expectations", I just shake my head and just chuckle at THAT thought. Afterall, I really AM the LUCKY one, I go home and do not have to deal with THAT on a daily basis , so in reality who is the real winner here? Now I take those same situations that would just make my blood boil and am so thankful I have what I have, am in the situation I am in and really pity most things that I see, hear or even get to somehow experience. I also now see others do not live to satisfy me nor do most care if they affect others around them, but also on the flip side, I do not live to satify them either and what I may do may not please them. It works both ways. WHO CARES! Live and let live. The energy I used to use stewing and being angry is utilized elsewhere in a more positive, effective manner.

Here is an example. This situation set my last anxiety and depression episode into overdrive. My sister and I had some issues. I see that she does whatever she needs to in order to benefit her, no matter what she may have promised or how it may effect me. And I was so PO'd at her because she said she was going to do something, then back paddled her way out with a bunch of excuse and left me holding a 2K bill. NOW in the present, I have learned there are most situations that I cannot or just will not get involved in with my sister. I love her and repsect her, but know where I can and cannot go in order to not have expectations of her that could lead to disappointment. I know how she is and work with that, I do not get involved in certain things because of it, and that is OK. She thinks it is unfair at times, but I have learned (this will keep me from feeling angry at her and myself for being stupid which is another negative feeling)and refuse to go into anything that involves any money with her ever again, but too bad . I do not live to please her and she does not live to please me. With that, our relationship has never been better . I am assertive making sure that I am not a doormat again, that I am not used, manipulated.

If others want to continue being negative, destructive whether to themselves or others, I just keep my distance and honestly have no use for people like that in my life. If they want to clobber one another over the head, whether it is right or wrong, let them have at it ...I just shake my head, pity them and then chuckle because they are wasting SO much time over stuff that really is not important, it just comes down to personal pride, ego and beign "right". I have cut ties with most of my fathers family because if nothing good can come of it, why put my time and energy there? My aunt is a wonderful Sunday follower of God, preaches the goodness she says she really is, but when she gets home, she will let loose and rip you apart Her husband and 1 son that still lives at home really take a verbal and psychological beating. She has done it to me on every occasion I have talked to her on the phone or in person, so why should I bother? She cannot even SEE that the very behavior she chastises, condems and critizes others of, SHE HERSELF if the BIGGEST offender! I view her as a destructive force, not only to herself but to others around her as well....so IF NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF IT, DO NOT PUT YOUR ENERGY NEAR IT OR INTO IT. This is especially true if you are in the begining stages of your healing. You need to be around people that are positive, that will encourage you and not pull you back into darkness. Find things that will fill your time that fulfill you in your heart and mind. Mine is helping others, serving people. Seeing people smile because of something I said or did is great, it provides me with fulfillment inside to be able to give to others. I see that when I immerse myself in good things, those destructive thoughts and behaviors do not have the time to enter my life. I am getting "high" on the good deeds, good feelings and actions around me. Not only what I am doing, but by getting others around me involved and motivated, THAT is a high . And when you get involved in positive stuff, what guilt and blame would there be? You are guilty of spending time helping an elderly person shopping one evening, that you made them feel as they where important enough for you to take a couple of hours out of your busy life to spend with them? Can you place blame on yourself because you walked a couple dogs at the animal shelter and those dogs were so happy they licked your face with excitement? That would be so horrible! I found that getting out and surrounding myself with good made me see that I really am capable of good, that I really am good! When I got involved and busy, I no longer had time to beat myself up and really with all those good things I am involed with, what am I really left with TO beat myself up with? I do not watch others with critical eyes and stew anymore as to what they should or should not be doing. When I started to look at myself and what I CAN do instead of the expectations I had of others, I really started to live my life, improve my life and my attitude. I know I cannot change anyone, but I do have the power to change me. I can make a difference even though maybe my neighbor may not be and that is ok. Everyone has different standards, morals, values and they all do not live up to mine, they do not have to. I am in charge of ME and that is what I keep focus on. I also know that I am not perfect but am a human that does have fault and will make mistakes. When I accepted THAT, I felt I turned the corner and was not beating myself which in turn keeps me from becoming critical and angry with myself or others which frees my thoughts, feelings and time to be all I CAN BE and CAN BECOME the person my dogs think I am!

I hope this helps.

Thanks schnauzermom and don53,

Expectations, if we are trying to break new ground in reprogramming our reactions to lifes stressers now can (I,we) not feel disappointment when, inevitably, old reactionary behavior takes over again.

I can see or hear a 'trigger' and be swept away to a privious holiday, heated arguement or junior high school in which I wish I could have a 'redo'.

Don53, Thank you for a tool I can get and read,
Quote- "I am going to take a little out of Dr. Burns' book, "Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy", chapter chapter 8, Ways of Defeating Guilt.

"The belief that you are bad contributes to the 'bad behavior". Why is that?

"Change and learning occur most readily when you (a) recognize that an error has occurred and (b) develop a strategy for correcting the problem. An attitude of self-love and relaxation facilitates this, whereas guilt often interferes." I would add here that in order to have self-love we have to forgive ourselves for mistakes we make."

I am trying to pay attention to my reactions and my diet, exercise, journaling... You know it's like the performer with spinning plates balancing on sticks, how many can you keep paying attention to? Some days I still exhibit 'bad behavior'. We are not perfect true but "doing what we've always done will get us what we've always gotten" doesn't have enough stopping power.

Thank God for my churches belief in "original sin" I was born bad and feel guilt for not being a perfect being. That's my excuse and i will hold onto it for just a little longer, thank you. src

Forgiveness is the gift I MUST give myself and others.

"You wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you knew how seldom they did."

quote:

Originally posted by Don53:

We have heard the phrase, "Hurt people hurt people." This goes along with what I have just stated. Refusing to forgive ourselves for mistakes in behavior keeps us locked into hurt, guilt, self destructive behavior and emotions, and it keeps us locked into repeating the very behavior which causes us to feel guilty. Briefly feeling remorse, not condemnation, gives us a desire to change the behavior. Forgiving ourselves empowers us to change and learn from our mistakes because we maintain self-love, self-esteem, and motivation.

Self-destructive guilt keeps us hurt and locked in to the behavior which caused our initial guilt. Constructive remorse along with forgiveness empowers us to change for the better. That's my take on guilt, blame, shame, and condemnation.

Why do we carry the blame of our transgresors but not the accolades of the people who believe in us? src

quote:

Why do we carry the blame of our transgresors but not the accolades of the people who believe in us? src

You are an interesting person. I still have not figured out where you are coming from, where your guilt is coming from. We, ourselves, choose what we will focus on whether it be negative things or positive things.

I will say one thing about Christianity. Some Christians, including pastors, choose to focus on the negative from scripture. They say in effect, "You aren't good enough", placing pressure on others and perhaps themselves to perform for acceptance and love. Therefore, for many in this environment performance is key to accepting themselves and others. This type of belief system is what I once had also. In my opinion, this is legalism which I define as obeying rules to be accepted by God and others.

The good news is that God says that we can never be good enough, no matter how good we are. That is why Christ came and died. By faith we accept Christ's righteousness as well as forgiveness of sin because our righteousness is as filthy rags. Once we do that we are not who we were before that, according to God. We no longer are in the first Adam at that point, but in the second Adam. The sin nature of the first Adam was put to death with Christ on the cross so that [positionally speaking] we would no longer be subject to the power and enslavement of sin. Therefore, not only did Christ die for our sins [acts, what we do], he also died for our sin [Adamic nature, who we are]. Romans 6:6.

The Mosaic law was nailed to the cross as well, meaning the indebtedness we owed to God through disobedience of the commandments and law was cancelled at the cross. Colossians 2:14. We are not under that law, but under the grace and mercy of God which came through Christ. We don't have to obey that law [ten commandments] to be approved or accepted in the eyes of God. God wants us to obey it, yes, don't get me wrong. But, it is impossible for humans, in their own human strength or energy, to obey it. [Our righteousness is as filthy rags] That is the function and purpose of the Holy Spirit. However, our redemption is NOT based on our obedience to the law, but is based on our faith in Christ.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

This speaks of now, not when we die. This new resurrection life is in Christ for our life now and for all eternity. This is where the power comes from to obey the commandments, through the Holy Spirit, not in our own strength. Paul also experienced the curse of seeking to live under the law, to be accepted by God by obeying the law in Romans chapter 7. It didn't work for him either.

II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

Since we are in Christ, we have become new creatures, unlike who we were before. Who we were before has passed away, been nailed to the cross.

Therefore, if someone is seeking to place a guilt trip on you for sin, you have every right to explain all of this to them. You are no longer subject to "original sin" because that nature and who we were before faith in Christ has been crucified on the cross of Christ. Christ has set you free.

I've tried to explain this from a theological point of view because it appears this may be where you are coming from with guilt?

src,

quote:

Expectations, if we are trying to break new ground in reprogramming our reactions to lifes stressers now can (I,we) not feel disappointment when, inevitably, old reactionary behavior takes over again.

I think this diminishes as you practice your skills and gain experience. I also had to learn to forgive myself when I felt that old feelin' creep back in. I know for me to get past this, I needed to start at the initial get go, not have any built up expectations of anything from jump. That way there is no disappointment. This is all about lower expectations...expect less, get more. I think that is so true. I finished the program almost a year ago, and I had to really worked at this lesson.

There are no redo's. You need to accept what happened, it is in the past, realize that you cannot change it which means coming to terms and accepting whatever happened and then knowing that you can change your present, that you ARE in control of your present. You are only miserable of you are, no one can make you miserable or anything else for that matter.

NO REGRETS. That was a concpet for me to accept. But, if I kept thinking about regrets, that takes away from me living NOW, right? Life will just pass me by, then tomorrow I will fret about yesterday and the time I spent regretting, then I start to accumulate many regrets and before you know it I am so overwhelmed with regret that depression and anxiety set in. Too much time is being spent in the past then. Where does anyone have the time to enjoy NOW when you are mulling over yesterday, last week, last year, 5 years ago???? You cannot fix of change the past. Make ammends, forgive yourself if you need to, but accept the past and start living in the present.

src,

My apologies to you if my last post was inappropriate here. The intent was to help release from guilt as a result of certain beliefs held by Christians. The intent was not to stop you from posting anymore. I hope you feel the freedom to post as you feel the need, and again, my apologies if what I posted was inappropriate. If you are coming from a different path than Christianity, that's cool. Was trying to help, but appears it may have hurt instead.

Don53!

LOL no worries, Lots of "read and post" to cover around here! I am still processing my thoughts on what was posted and have a friend in CA that I plan on forwarding your post to. I really liked the way you developed a sound argument based on specific passages. Thank you for your thoughts and I will get back on board when I have peeled a few more layers off this onion that is my awareness! God bless you guys, I hope I never don't need you. src

"People, people who need people, are the luckest people in the world."

There are more passages than what I posted. The scriptures in general back up what I have said. Salvation in the Old Testament was by faith [in Christ] as well, not by the law or the blood of bulls and goats. Hebrews 10:4. There is old and new testament scripture to back this up. Those in the old testament simply had faith in God, but God the Father accepted that faith as faith in his Son. Romans 3:25 "God presented him [Christ] as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished." The sins committed beforehand is speaking of all sin committed before the crucifixion of Christ, which includes all the old testament. Therefore, salvation has always been through Jesus Christ, since Adam and Eve.

I would like to overcome guilt and shame within my own mind. A safety net is always a good bet. The strenght to live each day, I would rather come from within my own abilities. SEE, even I see the ego in this platform. I would rather not to have to thank any other force for my 'redemption', EGO, I say! Still to look outside of ourselves seems contrary to Lucinda's program of self reliance, Which i lean on daily (most days). I do not and have never been shown how to love myself. Life does not seem to offer these rewards. I have been taught to be 'proud' of my sucesses. I seek to learn from my falures as well. SEE, EGO again. src

I'm gonna getta tiny doll, and love it as myself. Is this Idollogy??

My impression is that you are seeking to be accepted by God and others through performance, through obeying rules whether from your church or from the scripture. Such conditonal based acceptance always tells us that we aren't good enough and can never be good enough. Therefore, we have guilt which never ceases. This is what I define as legalism, seeking to be accepted through obeying rules or the ten commandments or other rules set forth in scripture.

As Romans 3:20 states "For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin."

Galations 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

This clearly states that no one will ever receive approval or acceptance from God through the law no matter how perfectly they obey it. To seek to do so places us under a heavy burden which never ceases. It's a burden of guilt which never ends. This is why Christ died and was raised, to free us from this curse. I have experienced this too much.

The purpose of the ten commandments and the law being given was not for humans to obey it and therefore receive approval from God. The purpose of it being given was to show that we can never be approved, accepted, or justified by the law because we have broken it. Romans 3:23 "since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Its purpose is to reveal our sinfulness and our need of a savior.

Romans 3:19-26 clearly shows that salvation comes through faith in Christ, but we need to understand what the Cross is all about, what God did at the Cross, why the Cross. Some of that I have already explained in my previous post.

Christ said in John 15 that he is the vine and we are the branches. In verse 4 he states that no branch can bear fruit by itself but must remain in the vine. That is where the branch [believers] gets its life, from the vine [Christ himself]. In verse 5 he ssys that apart from Him we can do nothing.

Apart from the Holy Spirit and its power we can do nothing which pleases God. Our own works of righteousness without the power of the Holy Spirit are as filthy rags and of no purpose to God.

I would encourage you to read and study the gospels and focus on Christ and especially the Cross and the Resurrection. Along with that I would encourage you to read and study Romans chapters 5 through 8. Assume you know nothing about living the Christian life. Ask God to reveal to you how to live it and ask Him to give you revelation through the Holy Spirit into His word.

Christ's death and resurrection have taken away condemnation to those who believe, Romans 8:1, reconciled us to God, Romans 5:10, and given us peace with God, Romans 4:25 & 5:1. His death and resurrection have given us the power to live united with Christ and live a new life, Romans 6:5 & 8:11. Because of the cross, if we sin we can be immediately restored to fellowship with Christ, 1 John 1:9.

Galations 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Christ is our love, joy, peace, kindness, etc. He is the way, the truth, and the life. As we spend time alone with Him, in prayer, reading His word, He will give life to our mortal bodies through the power of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:11. You have been set free from guilt and shame through Christ's Cross, all your sins have been forgiven and you are a new creature in Christ. You are loved by God. My prayer for you and myself is that we will experience His Presence and power in our times alone with Him.

Worry is interest paid on trouble before it's due.....